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The exit of Andrew Wyatt

By Jeff Barringer · January 7, 2013 6:17 pm

In the business world, CEOs and presidents are fired, resign, or move on to other things every day. Sometimes they resign to move on to bigger and better things. Sometimes they resign because of a difference of opinion with their board. Sometimes they resign in lieu of being terminated, sometimes because the board has lost faith, sometimes because of gross incompetence or dishonesty, and sometimes because criminal activity has been uncovered. It's tough to read between the lines in press releases, but in the business world if an executive move is lateral or downward, you can usually bet the resignation wasn't by choice.

Sometimes these management changes signal a change for the worse in an organization, and sometimes it's a change for the better. Rarely does it signal impending doom -- it's far more likely it simply signals a change in direction. In the case at hand, the changes are for the good, and signal a change in direction: the right direction.

I'm talking about the recent resignation of USARK's Andrew Wyatt. Since USARK's inception, I have withheld support of the organization out of concern over the individual at its helm. Some believed it was, and Wyatt himself always passed it off as, personal animosity, but that's not the case.

Having already started and been involved with a similar lobbying organization in the years from 1997-2002, I was familiar with the problems and obstacles such an organization faced, and therefore did my best to steer everyone toward using assets already in place rather than creating the expense, burden, commitment, and risk a new organization would entail.

I also knew that, once started, it would forever need to be fed, in ever-growing amounts of money. I knew such an organization would need to be geared up to operate for 20+ years, and raise millions of dollars. And I knew that the easiest, fastest way to raise early money was to start yelling "fire" all the time -- a battle cry that would inevitably backfire and be destructive to our community and our hobby.

Which is exactly what we saw happen with the constant drumbeat of disaster Wyatt put forth from USARK during his tenure. And just as I feared, it frightened away consumers and businesses, putting downward pressure on an industry and hobby already staggering under the weight of a bad economy.

I also kept my distance from Wyatt's organization because it didn't pass my due diligence.

Websters defines "due diligence" two ways: First, as the care that a reasonable person exercises to avoid harm to other persons or their property, and second, as the research and analysis of a company or organization done in preparation for a business transaction.

As part of that process, I looked at everything I could find pertaining to the organization and the individual running it. Neither the strategy being employed, nor the lack of transparency, nor the possibility of harm, gave me confidence in either.

I was also concerned about the structure of USARK, which left all the power concentrated in the hands of one individual, the founder, with a board of directors limited in its ability to assert control should he choose to take the organization down a wrong path.

Even more troubling to me, that individual had no legal background, no lobbying background, and no corporate background. In fact, as far as I could tell, his knowledge of and background in the herp community and industry was limited. I knew that there would be hundreds of thousand of dollars required to do what he was proposing, and at risk would be an industry with thousands of businesses and individuals involved, worth millions. Despite this, it seemed that something as basic as a relevant background investigation had never even been run.

Finally, I knew that as long as Wyatt was in charge, it would be his organization, not the board's, and certainly not the "Reptile Nation's."

So I withheld kingsnake.com's support, and my support, until Wyatt and USARK could prove themselves.

In the following years, Wyatt, did nothing to prove me wrong. In fact, it almost seemed that he did everything to prove me correct, repeatedly. Evidence and allegations of bad management were rife, including loose controls over cash flow and expenses, excessive travel for limited gain, lack of transparency as to how funds were spent, poor messaging and messaging protocols, and USARK officers carrying on inappropriate personal relationships with USARK volunteers at industry trade show events.

As USARK gained momentum and voice, Andrews' "house on fire" tactics took a greater and greater toll on hobbyists and businesses, turning what had been a rapidly-growing industry into one that slowed, then stopped, then began to reverse course.

I repeatedly raised numerous questions and concerns to Andrew, to the USARK board members, and to the community. I pointed out that the path we were headed down was damaging us as an industry and community. Wyatt continued to paint this as a personal issue, and publicly labeled me as "divisive" every chance he got.

Perhaps for that reason, the USARK board disregarded my questions and warnings, and I never got the information and answers I was looking for. My opposition to USARK's leadership, policies, and direction became well known not only in the back channels where I tried to keep them, but publicly as well -- so well-known, in fact, it negatively impacted my business, my friendships, and my personal relationships in the community.

In the spring of 2012, feeling almost desperate about the direction our hobby was moving in and hoping to rebuild some of the bridges Wyatt was burning, I helped start a reptile law education organization dedicated to putting on a reptile law symposium, the re-purposed National Reptile and Amphibian Advisory Council (NRAAC).

NRAAC was indirectly threatened with, and ultimately suffered, a "blackout" by industry leaders and media connected to the USARK organization. Others in the community were pressured by USARK, both directly and indirectly, not to participate in the organization or the symposium. Virtually the only press we got was on kingsnake.com. I was even told, by one long-time customer, that he could not accept my event's advertising, free or paid, for fear of upsetting USARK.

The blackout dramatically impacted our ability to market the event and directly limited the participation by the community in the very first national reptile law symposium. Were it not for the federal and state agencies, as well as PIJAC, the ARAV, and especially the ETHS, the event would have foundered. Thanks to them, it was a huge success.

I'd like to address another issue that demonstrates how Wyatt put his own personal agenda ahead of the well-being of our hobby. Wyatt and another USARK officer, Ericka Walsh, claimed that they were unaware of the Symposium until it was too late to attend, and that they were not invited to participate. This is demonstrably untrue. We invited USARK directly via email from our site coordinator. Despite the lack of response to our invitation, we even had a badge prepared and waiting for Wyatt at the event, should he have decided to appear at the last moment.

But Wyatt didn't appear. Nor did Walsh.

Neither did Dave and Tracy Barker, who were also invited to represent either USARK or their own business, or both, despite Dave being invited by me personally during the Snake Days event in Sanderson four months previously, and receiving multiple email invites. Wyatt, Walsh, the Barkers -- not one of them could see the need to sit down and talk with the specific federal agencies, and the specific individuals within those agencies, tasked with deciding the fate of Boa Constrictors and Reticulated Pythons.

Fortunately, less than a week before the event, Gary and Shane Bagnall made arrangements to participate, guaranteeing USARK at least some representation.

So here we are today.

Andrew has "resigned" under what most people see as the proverbial "mysterious circumstances." He is predictably painting himself as the martyr in the situation, and is trying to divide the community by launching an organization directly competing with USARK. He is using what is essentially a generic cover story to explain his exit, and to justify the need for the existence of this new organization, to launch it, and to once again ask you for your money. And he is hiding the facts behind a non-disclosure agreement that masks the real circumstances of his exit. Talk about being "divisive."

Maybe you're considering supporting Wyatt's new organization. Maybe you believe his claims that only he, not USARK and its board, nor anyone else in the herp community, really cares about your interests. Maybe you just don't want to make him into an enemy.

Fine. But before you support any organization headed by Andrew Wyatt, you should ask him the questions I'd like to have asked him over the last three years (and tried to). Under oath.

Here are five questions for Andrew Wyatt, below the jump -- add yours in the comments!

1. Allegations have been made to kingsnake.com that you and/or USARK staff members or volunteers ran unauthorized criminal background checks on a number of individuals, including your political opponents.

  • Is this true?
  • If so, who authorized these background checks, and who performed them?
  • On what individuals were these checks performed?
  • With whom was the information shared? How was this information used, or planned to be used?
  • Does USARK have an official member privacy statement?
  • Did anyone at USARK raise a concern that running unauthorized background checks might violate any criminal laws, or result in civil violation of privacy litigation? Or that disclosing information, correct or not, from data obtained using unauthorized background checks might result in civil libel, slander or business interference litigation?
  • Are you aware of any pending, potential, or threatened civil or criminal litigation against you or the USARK organization resulting from these background checks, or any actions taken with the information discovered?

    2. Did you leave USARK with any pending civil, criminal, or tax liabilities of any kind? Specifically:

  • USARK was originally registered as a North Carolina corporation, and is subject to North Carolina's corporate laws, enforced by that state's Attorney General and its Division of Corporations. To your knowledge, are you personally, or the USARK organization, currently under investigation by those two agencies, or by any other agencies, state or federal, for any improprieties, criminal or otherwise, that occurred while you were in charge of the organization?
  • What is the tax status of USARK dating from your tenure? Will you release the IRS income tax records for the organization from that period?
  • How much sales tax did USARK pay during the years you were in charge of the organization?
  • Can you release the sales tax permits from all the states where you held auctions for USARK for the period you were in charge of the organization, including copies of sales tax payments made to the individual states on the proceeds of those auction sales, as is required of non-profits in almost every state?
  • Did you, or any other USARK staff member, volunteer, or member photograph a lobbyist of an opposing organization in Ohio?
  • Did you, or any other USARK staff member, volunteer, or member circulate that photograph of the lobbyist along with the lobbyist's personal family information?
  • If so, what actions did the State of Ohio take against USARK, or you personally?
  • Please provide us any communications to or from officials in the state of Ohio regarding this incident.

    3. What's the real story behind your exit from USARK?

  • Why is there a non-disclosure agreement in place between yourself and the board that prevents you from discussing your exit, and the payments made to you, with USARK members and members of the community at large?
  • What other things, specifically, does the non-disclosure agreement prevent you from discussing, and the USARK membership and community at large from seeing?
  • kingsnake.com was informed you requested $180,000.00 to relinquish control of USARK to the USARK board of directors; is this true?
  • How much money in fact did USARK have to pay you to leave the organization in the end?
  • After you left, did you keep copies of any USARK emails, member lists, contact lists, databases or any other electronic or physical USARK assets?
  • Did you delete, remove or destroyed the organization's Facebook page, and if not, what happened to it?
  • What other USARK funded assets did you destroy when you exited the organization, if any?
  • What are the specific circumstances that led to your exit from the USARK organization?
  • Erica Walsh was apparently a vice-president in the USARK organization, and then resigned, and now she is the vice-president of your new organization. Did the USARK board of directors authorize her appointment?
  • Who, specifically, appointed her to the role of USARK vice-president?

    4. How was USARK's money handled?

  • You have said you were not in control of the USARK money, yet dozens of people report handing you, specifically, cash for things such as raffle tickets, auction payments and straight donations. How did you handle this money?
  • How many bank accounts exactly did USARK have, and where, and specifically who had signing authority over checks and other payments from those accounts?

    5. What's the story with your new organization?

  • Why did you start an organization to immediately begin competing with an organization that you raised over a million dollars for?
  • Which USARK assets do you plan to utilize in your new, competing, organization?
  • How much of the USARK payout was used to start your new, competing, organization?
  • How much money do you hope/expect to raise for your new organization?
  • How many times will you plan to visit Las Vegas, California, or Florida on funds provided by the new organization?
  • How many staff members, general members, or volunteers will travel with you on funds provided by the new organization?
  • Disparaging documents are being circulated regarding USARK and PIJAC, specifically regarding issues your organization intends to support that you suggest USARK and PIJAC don't or won't. What involvement do you or anyone affiliated with your new organization have in the writing or circulation of those documents?

    Before I invested in his new organization, I would require answers to these questions. I'm sure there are lots of other good questions; which ones would you like to see answered that I didn't already ask?

  • Comments

    Andrew Jan 7, 2013

    Jeff,
    With Wyatt gone, where do you stand with USARK under it's new leadership? Much of what you have written here seems (probably rightfully so) that the issue between USARK and kingsnake was more to do with Wyatt's day to day handling than anything else.

    Varanid Jan 7, 2013

    Honestly, a lot of those could/should be answered by either party, in particular the 1st, 2nd and 4th. USARK also needs to elaborate on what it is changing in response to whatever happened so as to prevent a repeat.

    Jeff Barringer Jan 7, 2013

    We have decided that the current USARK board will be able to replace Andrew without too much difficulty, and that the changes they are implementing are the right ones. We will now be supporting USARK as long as they remain committed to the changes, and oversite, they have promised. I have spoken at length with Gary Bagnall and several other board members about the current situation and it's impact on moving forward. I have sent Gary and these board members some recommendations that I and others hav for changes we would like to see to make the organization more transparent, and more democratic, with members having a greater influence on policy and direction, and more voice in the organization in general.

    Jason Jan 7, 2013

    This is very interesting, especially having been involved in the pet industry for so long and having met Wyatt and listening to what he had to say on several occasions when he asked the company I used to work for, for donations, which they gave. I even attended a meeting in Daytona as a representative of the company I worked for, because they were curious what went on at those meetings. Seeing as USARK has support from most of the big companies with the money to donate to that type of organization, where does he expect to get funding for his new venture? After reading this hopefully no one will support his new organization and it will quietly disappear.

    And know I didn't resign from my job at the company I worked for that supported USARK, I simply quit to move back home to be closer to my family. so you won't be reading a juicy write up like this about me LOL.

    Brendan Jan 7, 2013

    Jeff,

    I have a few questions for you.

    Are you running Kingsnake.com to help the entire reptile industry, your industry friends or your pocket?

    How much money have you or Kingsnake.com directly contributed to help the industry?

    Is it your policy and the policy of Kingsnake to hold payments for ads/services hostage and not answer email related to these ads until the person placing the ad has no choice other then to file a payment claim. Then to be quickly kicked off Kingsnake for filing the claim by you claiming they are a threat to your business?

    Do you remove or block access to Kingsnake because that person or company may be in direct competition to your "friends"?

    Will you remove this post because you may think it is directly negative to you?

    I don't see any difference between you/Kingsnake and Andrew/USark except maybe a different agenda and you trying to peacock by saying I told you so and look at me!

    Maybe if Andrew or USark could have only directly benefitted your wallet. You would be singing a different song.

    Jeff Barringer Jan 7, 2013

    kingsnake.com is a business and donates a substantial portion of its revenues to the community. Last year we spent over $12,000 cash in addition to thousands of dollars of services to put on the NRAAC symposium. I can post receipts. How much did you donate in 2012

    From your questions I would say that you have been banned from using our classifieds and have attempted to circumvent your ban on multiple occasions. Usually bans are placed on accounts because of complaints of fraud or theft. We give those banned users the terms of their ban, and how they can remove it, if possible. If they return after the initial ban we generally refund their purchase. If they attempt to circumvent their ban again we do not refund their payment, as is clearly outlined in our terms of service. We won't respond to banned users if they subsequently commit more fraudulent acts on our site, such as entering into a fraudulent contract with us using a fake name.

    Brandon why don't you give me your username and I will post your account history for everyone to see why specifically you were banned from using our web site?

    Jared Watts Jan 7, 2013

    So, I was trying to stay out of this and as a herper who could care less about a Stupid "Pet Industry" laundry list of animals lemme just ask. So will USARK continue to support venomous and large constrictor keepers now that Andrew is gone? Since that appears to be the major sticking point between a laundry list of "pet industry" supporters who have realisticly little interst in animals with significance in natural ecology and more significance in supporting the money making abomination that is the pet trade. You can point fingers all you want, I have working politically with Andrew and know his stance, and I also know alot of ball python breeders were willing to make sacrifices to PIJAC and other "pet industry" parties to throw us hot keepers under the bus so that HSUS would drop there attacks. Our own worst enemy is us, to that I ask. DO YOU GUYS SUPPORT PRIVATE LARGE CONSTRICTOR AND VENOMOUS KEEPERS, or will you ostracize us much like USARK did to Andrew for not playing politics and sacrificing us so that you could keep a bunch of ecologically worthless morphs. Easy question, do you support a large amount of the community as a whole, or are you looking for cut outs? So skip the BS about money, and tell us what this is really about, "personal differences".

    Bob Jan 7, 2013

    If there is a confidential agreement then all those questions are just a waste of time and nothing but rumor mill crap.

    Jeff Barringer Jan 7, 2013

    Jared - I am not a member of USARK, I am not a member of PIJAC, so I cannot answer for either organization. I can say that neither organization has ever expressed any real interest in throwing any reptile owners or businesses "under the bus" large constrictors, venomous, or otherwise. . I can say that in the political negotiating process often many things may be placed on the table even though it is not their intention to truly barter them. I will note however that under what I would term "Andrews' Law" in North Carolina, his home state, some of the laws he was responsible for implementing under his previous organization, NCARK, actually criminalized certain aspects of large constrictor and venomous keeping.

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_55.html

    Walter Kidd knows firsthand the impact Andrew has had on venomous keepers in NC
    http://main.aol.com/2011/08/16/man-living-with-154-reptiles_n_928691.html

    Then under the USARK umbrella Andrew actually proposed similar regulations across the border in SC, where no regulations had been been proposed.

    Bob: A civil non-disclosure agreement has limitations that can easily be penetrated by third parties via lawsuit or by agencies investigating criminal complaints. A NDA's use as a shield is limited. Additionally only the parties of the agreement are subject to the agreement. I am not subject to the agreement. I actually know most of the answers to those questions. I would just like to see them answered and documented, under oath.

    Brendan: I have in fact located some of your prior account information and am perfectly willing to discuss your account status here, in public. Your call.

    Jan 7, 2013

    I have donated "unfortunately" $1000 in Cages, Racks, Animals and Supplies to MARS and USark Auctions. I drank the cool-aid like many people did thinking USark was helping.

    You donating $12K+ to your own company is a joke. I'm sure you took the tax write off for your very generous donation? Then, did you deducted your travel and other expenses with NRAAC?

    So you donated to yourself, so you can travel to some nice vacation spots and hang with your friends, talk a little business and deduct it all? Twice?

    Why is this any different then Andrew/USark? That's right, we are the ones that made it possible for Andrew to take some nice vacations. You just paid for yours yourself. Clever!

    Why don't you post your tax returns for NRAAC?

    Any salaries paid out from NRACC? To you?

    Just like with USark, the truth will come out. Karma is a bitch!

    Now to your threats to post my Kingsnake history:

    I was banned from Kingsnake for a "violation of your TOS". I had in my ads that I ship with Reptile Express. I was told this was a violation of your TOS so my ad was removed. When i did a search of the keyword "SYR" and found 100's of ads that said they ship with SYR I responded to the email i received removing my ad. I asked why is it OK for SYR and not RE? Did not get an answer other then surprise! I was banned now. Your easy legal out to remove unwanted user for any reason you decide and that is fine it's your company and you wrote the TOS just so you always have this easy out. I know the real reason. I have never tried to reestablish my account nor do I want to. You refused to post a show listing for the president and CEO of Reptile Palooza. Why? Someone that is not me. That is a real person and has never been a previous Kingsnake user. He is a very close friend of mine. I'm not pretending to be him. He is a very real person. He sent you a email everyday, all unanswered until on the last day he could file a claim. He filed the claim. Within 5 min you told him he was banned because he was a threat. He also sent many email to other employees of Kingsnake. All where answered until you realized it was him trying to get an answer about his show post. I can post the entire email history if that is ok with you?

    Jeff Barringer Jan 7, 2013

    Brandon - perhaps you ought to do your research before asking questions and making statements.

    The $12,000.00 payment was made to the event facility I have the receipts in NRAAC's name by kingsnake.com. It was not a "write off" as you suggest, NRAAC is not a non-profit, does not have a bank account, does not solicit donations. Additionally NRAAC pays no salaries to anyone, and no travel expenses to anyone. All those payments were writeoffs only in the nature that they were written off kingsnake.com's bank account. And every dime is accounted for with receipts.

    As a private business we are free to decide who we want to sell services too, and under what conditions. It's in the contract you and everyone else agrees too. In your case we decided that we did not want to provide you services.

    You lost your access to our services because you were using 1 account to advertise 2 businesses, your cage business and your reptile express business, which we considered theft of service. Additionally you were encouraging others to use their classified advertisements to advertise your service, a violation of our terms of service contract, and had actually built your marketing program around the idea of "free" advertising on kingsnake.com via piggyback. That was never going to happen.

    You were given an opportunity to provide us documentation from FedEx and UPS proving that you had their approval to resell shipping services like your competitors like SYR had done so that we could offer you a similar deal as your competitors like SYR, but you failed to do that.

    As to "Reptile Palooza" as that is not your account and you are not the account holders legal representative as such I am not in a position to violate that users privacy and discuss that account with you but will gladly discuss it here, in public with the account holder.

    Jared Watts Jan 8, 2013

    Well Jeff, I spent 6 months on a hand selected panel of industry experts here in VA. And Andrew was one of them and you appear to not know alot of the details. Yes, concessions by certain parties were suggested on things like venomous and big constrictors, and Andrew fought them. I am well aware and know Walter, but I dont think the law in NC is awful either. I will say I have worked, in lawmaking and lobbying with Andrew, hands on. Its real easy for those not involved in politics to point fingers at those doing it. I was in the boardroom with the HSUS and Felds lawyers, Andrew, AZA and ZAA heads and know he supported and fought diligently for hot keepers rights. While others were willing to make, sacrifices. So I would like USARK to now step up, DO YOU< KINGSNAKE, OR PIJAC SUPPORT A LARGE NUMBER OF VENOMOUS PRIVATE KEEPERS IN THIS COMMUNITY. And I know 100% many BP and boa keepers here in state tried to make cut outs for just those species( as a delegate and couple senators offered to work with that, which we said was a no go)
    . Enemys within our own ranks

    Kevin McCurley Jan 8, 2013

    I agree that we NEED TO KNOW who is planning to include the broad scope of Herps in their fight? I feel that is is also very important to fight for Venomous, Large Constrictors, Crocodilians, Monitors and even Arachnids/Inverts. And when I say FIGHT I mean Fight, not we just "support" or we don't "exclude" these groups. That kind of tepid response is not what many keepers want to hear! I would really like to know did Andrew feel/know that USARK was willing to give up some of these to save others? I have been hearing rumors that Herp Alliance will FIGHT for these groups, does that mean that USARK did not? I do not think that any organization set up to fight for us can expect FULL support from the overall community with "select a cute pet species" and we will fight for that one. We need some clarity here, what are the differences from USARK and Herp Alliance? There need to be some very strong contradictions for both to exist and be effective. What are they? I know USARK has had its issues and they will refine themselves and improve, this I expect. I think as a community that we will have to improve our support to whoever rises to the top and wins favor.

    So, a question, What are the proposed differences between Herp Alliance and USARK? Which one is the complete package? Division only may weaken our voice.

    Kevin @ NERD

    Jeff Barringer Jan 8, 2013

    As I stated before I am not a member or officer for either USARK of the PIJAC organization so I cannot offer you their thoughts, I can only offer my thoughts and suggestions on the matter.

    Yes Andrew sure appears to "talk" a good game, sometimes, when he shows up, but in the end it's the results that matter. Before Andrew's rise it was legal to keep ship and sell Burmese pythons, across state lines, and in most states, now it is not. Combating USFWs Big 9 was the primary purpose and reason for forming USARK in the first place. I know that USARK didn't even bother to show up when Texas restricted venomous snakes, large constrictors, road collecting, and implemented the white and black list. The only reason Andrew has ever come to Texas was to - raise money as far as I can tell.

    As to USARK and PIJACs support, neither have expressed to me any desire to drop support of venomous or large constrictors. Technically a pet is traditionally considered a companion animal, and it would be hard to consider venomous species a pet that meets the definition, by that I would expect PIJAC, which is a PET lobbying organization to offer only limited support. But to my knowledge they have not limited that support.

    My own personal opinion is that the keepers in the state and the state should decide which rules and regulations are right for their constituents and circumstance, I don't want to see any species banned, but I also would like to limit the number of cobras escaping into apartment complexes, so I think that in some cases
    regulation and permitting should be required. But I'm not going to come to your state and tell you how you should write your laws. That should be between you and your regulators.

    As far as kingsnake.com, we have always, and will always support the venomous keeper, as well as big snake owners and always have and that should be relatively obvious by the fact that not only did we have the first venomous forum, the first venomous classifieds, the first boa, burmese python and reticulated python classifieds and forums, and in fact despite all the changes in laws over the last 15 years all of those things still exist on our site.

    NRAAC too, though not a lobbying organization, includes the venomous keeper and the large constrictors. The majority of the 2012 event focused around the constrictor issue, and though venomous was initially on the schedule the only agencies we found that restricted/wanted to restrict them were state agencies. Texas and Florida both sent representatives, but I don't think venomous was discussed much simply because no one there had any pending issues, though we have venomous keepers like Doug Hotle and Tim Cole there should the conversations steer that way.

    In the end it's results that matter, and in the end Andrew Wyatts strategy, tactics, and over a million dollars, not only couldn't save Burmese pythons from the feds, he could even prevent an animal that's sole existence is a single specimen in a pickle jar from being banned as injurious.

    Andrew has had 5 seasons, and at the end of that his record is 0 wins, 5 losses, and 4 in limbo on the primary purpose for which the organization was formed - 0-5-4

    Not many coaches get to continue next season with stats like that.

    Captain Chin Cone Jan 8, 2013

    Kevin, on another forum Chen-Walsh told you that Andrew did not allude to propose or apparently even THINK about proposing the NC Legislation (USARK's BMPs) anywhere else - even in South Carolina.

    Read this link and then tell me what you think:

    http://www.jaxherp.com/usark-update11-8-09.html

    Wyatt's testimony on HR2811.

    Scroll down to the part that reads:

    "For example, last year legislation was passed in NC with the support of the NC Partners in Amphibian & Reptile Conservation to regulate the ownership and use of large constricting snakes. Similar legislation exists in the states of Texas and Florida, for reference. These measures insure that safe, secure, professional best management practices are observed to legally work with these animals. USARK is also currently working in VA and SC to introduce similar legislation in 2010. These best management practices embodied in existing state legislation could easily be adapted to a national USARK accreditation process insuring uniformity and professionalism across the country."

    Regardless of whether or not you believe in this type of legislation, what do you think of Wyatt's vehement "no" to your questions?

    Dan Brown Jan 8, 2013

    Im not going to comment on Andrew , because I do not know all of the facts. It seems like knowbody knows all of the facts. My biggest problem is why do we have a bunch of armchair quaterbacks now ? It doesnt matter if USARK wasnt fully successful or not. I know that PIJAC is involved as well , but when we our limited in our choices to have a lobby represent us , then USARK was an obvious choice. What am I missing ? I am under the opinion that more snakes and reptiles would be banned if it werent for USARK. I am all for improvement. Lets move on

    Jeff Barringer Jan 8, 2013

    Dan I think there have always been armchair quarterbacks but under Andrew's reign anyone asking any form of question, criticism or dissent regarding policies procedures money and strategy of Andrew Wyatt/USARK, were liable to get you labeled by the organization as being "divisive" and added to their enemies list. It's not surprising at how many or who is stepping forward in the community to let there true feelings be known without being suppressed.

    I too think it is time to move on, but I think the concerns and issues raised by the armchair quarterbacks need to be addressed and some if not all resolved so that we can. After all most of those quarterbacks are either USARK members, contributors,supporters or holdouts, and the last thing anyone should be doing is trying to suppress anyone's opinion. Thats' pretty much how we got where we are today.

    Dan Brown Jan 8, 2013

    I wasnt aware or part of an enemies list, and if accurate , its a shame. I guess its a good thing that he moved on. Lets just hope that we can all keep our boas (and all herps !) I love a good format such as this to air it out ! Thanks

    Kevin McCurley Jan 8, 2013

    Yes....... this is what I was talking about.

    Thanks you for that pointer. "No" appears to mean something else....

    I must be confused......... or something?

    Hmmmmmmm...... and I DON'T like those REGS one bit!! Criminal consequence for having a Pet snake? A baby one no less...just the species..... scaring someone with it. Ugghhhhhh........ Open for interpretation....

    Captain Chin Cone Jan 8, 2013

    PIJAC mentions BMPs and the world is coming to an end.

    Wyatt proposes them as a nationwide model and he's God's gift to ectotherms.

    Go figure.

    SGT Breen USMC Jan 9, 2013

    Please try to remember folks that we are a small hobby and that everybody here loves reptiles and amphibians. We cannot afford to become enemies and create hard feelings that will prevent us from working together to ensure that we implement good rules and regulations that show the public that we are responsible individuals.

    As far as which group is bad and which is good or which group doesn't do anything is nothing more than showing those in charge that there is a good number of us out there. We simply need to focus on getting everyone to show up at these events like (NRAAC) which show the folks in charge of creating laws that we are a proactive group and take responsibility.

    P.S. I'm glad to see the passion on this matter; it gives me hope that we won't lose this fight.

    rodney boalich Jan 9, 2013

    i think its important for everyone to realize that usarks model legislation was written by andrew wyatt before usark was formed. andrew wyatt took his model legislation with him to usark. and erika is lying about wyatt not pushing his model legislation in other states than ohio. in fact wyatt pushing his model legislation in PA is what started my war with usark. in 2011 wyatt claimed to have stopped PA senator alloway from purposing anti reptile legislation. that is not true. alloways office read me the letter they got from wyatt not usark directly from wyatt. stating that wyatt had heard that alloway was thinking about adding big snakes to his anti croc legislation and wyatt didnt think that a ban was necessary and he would be more then happy to come to PA and help write some good legislation to regulate reptiles in PA. and he did this without first contacting any reptile breeders in the state. i also found out that wyatt had also contacted PA senator kasunic to push for regulations for large constrictors. erika is also lying about what happened in SC with there anti exotics bill. that reptile part was almost word for word wyatts model legislation. i talked to i believe it was the director at SC dnr and he flat out told me that the bill couldnt pass. namely because wyatt tried to get reptile exempt and they added regulations to a bill that would ban all exotics. SC dnr told me you cant have a bill that bans exotics and then in the same bill leave a bunch of them out. so wyatt actually accidentally stopped that bill when he tried to sell out the rest of the exotic keepers in SC. another important thing to look at is SC, PA and all the other states that wyatt sent out an email saying that they would have anti reptile legislation popping up in 2012. now with PA and SC i know for a fact wyatt had been contacting those states talking about setting up regulations. SC tried to use he model legislation in a bill. iv caught wyatt multiple times lying about legislation in PA. all wyatt does is push for regulations and or wait til a bill is dead to go in and get thing moving again ( KIND OF LIKE HR511 ). this way he can have two victories. one being that as long as bills are on the move he can ask for donations to "stop" them. and two when the bill hes fighting is already dead he knows he cant lose that fight, so it makes him look victorious. and then can ask for even more donations. andrew wyatt is a scam artist plain and simple. he relies on everyone's lack of understanding of the legislative process to scare money out of them. the funniest thing about whats going on is now wyatt basically is saying all the things about usark that iv been saying publicly for the last year and a half. wyatts smart enough to realize that people want usark to be what wyatt told everyone it was and is now looking to capitalize on everyone's discontent. it is very important that everyone understand this fact im about to tell you. until a few days ago andrew wyatt was usark. the usark board tried to fire wyatt at tinley park but they found out that they had no real power becasue usark is owned by wyatt. wyatt made the rules and ran the organization the way he wanted i.e. the way that was most profitable to him. andrew wyatt likes to compare how little money usark spends salaries compared to hsus. he likes to compare that number to hsus's ceo wyane pacelle income of $250,000 a year. heres the thing wyatts leaving out. wyatts the only person getting pair at usark. and he takes the maximum amount he can. look at usark financial records you will see each year usark made a little more and each year wyatt took a little more. also to compare % of what wyatts taking to pacelle. pacelle takes 1/4 of 1% of hsus's annual income. wyatt takes 20% of usarks annual income. in terms of %'s wyatt is a much bigger scam artist then wyane pacelle. i dont think anybody has spoken out against wyatt more then i have. and i really thought since everything has come to light that wyatt would finally lose all support and would just fade away. andrew wyatt is in the BUSINESS of fighting anti reptile legislation. without it wyatt doesnt make money. things like the python ban and other federal level legislation makes him the most money because it affects everyone. people please understand wyatt pushes for anti reptile legislation becasue it puts cash in his pockets. as long as wyatts around the reptile industry will be under a much greater threat from both federal and state level legislation. i do not yet support usark. and i will not support usark until they do something about PAARk. which is the organization wyatt secretly set up in my sate to get back at me. and also i will not support usark until they help clean up the mess that both usark and pijac caused in ohio. but please people do not support wyatts new organization. he has compromised away enough of our rights. just at the hr511 hearing behind closed doors he tried to sell out all the importers. its right there in his written testimony. look into these issues and start talking about them. the easiest way to defeat people like andrew wyatt is to tell the truth.

    Dan Brown Jan 9, 2013

    Rodney , I respect your opinion, but it is only an opinion. I am not defending Wyatt and you may be 100% correct. I will defend the right to get a salary for working. Why would he work for free ?? I would still say that boas and other herps would be banned already if not for USARKS efforts. I need proof to believe otherwise. You may have valid points and may not like certain legislation, but what have you and others done to fight against HSUS. No harm intended here , but it seems everyone is complaining , but offer little as far as solutions.

    William Taylor Jan 9, 2013

    A lobbying group for reptiles can take a big tent stance and defend all keepers rights or it can view some as expendable. If USARKS decides protecting Ball Python and such are the end all and be all and the rest are expendable, it will have no support from me. I do not know Andrew very well, but as part of the lobbying effort in Va.I will say Jared is correct, Andrew was helpful in preventing concessions that turned out did not need to be made.
    I can tell you one thing, if USARK or any other group does not think that every segment of horticulture deserves the same whole heart defense....then it does not deserve our support. As it stands, I am very suspicious of the direction USARK will now take.

    rodney boalich Jan 10, 2013

    everything i said is true. feel free to call PA senator alloway and ask them to read you the letter from wyatt. i tried to get that letter through public records request. but by law they didnt have to hand it over. as for the money wyatt makes and that stuff. well thats just math. if you can add and subtract you will see its not just my opinion. what wyatt did with the whole hr511 and him trying to sell out importers just simply ead his testimony. ask wyatt if he wrote usarks model legislation. he use to brag about it becasue it works so well. thats why a part of NC is facing a constrictor ban right now. call PAARK and ask them about me. if theres any specific issue in my post you would like me to go into detail about please let me know. but when i say things like wyatt took 20% of usarks money thats not opinion. its posted in their financial statements.

    Dan Brown Jan 10, 2013

    I will say that USARK is definately on our side. They will continue to fight for ALL herps. The pythons and other large snakes are the easy targets for the politicians and animal wackos. I believe a group should rule USARK and not ant one individual. I believe that is the direction of USARK. The best way to become less suspicious is to contact board members and follow USARK as they release their new business model.

    Adam Ortega Jan 11, 2013

    To Jeff,I am attending a leadership council meeting on the 26th of January in Matica CA. I would love to use your blog in a presentation in whole or in part. It really makes one wonder, and had some very powerful questions that should be brought up to any organization that you may want to join or support. Thanks for your time Adam.

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