Venomdoc Forums

[Tom]

The neurotoxic venom composition of Naja melanoleuca exists primarely out of postsynaptical neurotoxine. The neurotoxic fraction of the venom even has an effect on the hearing apparatus, manifesting itselves in unilateral or bilateral deafness in human victims amoung others.
Necrosis in a bitecase of Naja melanoleuca can be absent in some cases, and in other cases can be manifest very severe. In Germany there was recently a bitecase involving a Forrest Cobra biting his caretaker. Dispite serumtreatment, the victim took a 12 weeks stay in the hospital and his arm had to be amputated.

I totaly agree with Wolfgang and Bryan that this species does not belonge in the hands of inexperianced keepers. I regard Forrest Cobras as a Cobra with mamba features...

[dendroaspis]

Forest Cobras are probably the most unpredictable of the cobra species, and right up there when it comes to intelligence and a willingness to defend itself.

I have had variable temperaments. Some that I have kept have been absolute demons. Easily one of the most difficult snakes to handle. Because it knows a tree well, a hookstick is simply another branch. The sheer size of the snake is also another factor. While a mamba is longer, this cobra is simply bigger.
A few years ago I did a demonstration with one, and it all went well until the snake realised I was holding its tail. It came at me like lightning! I put it away immediately and have never done another demo with one, and I never will again. Mambas are much easier to handle than an angry Forest Cobra (in my experience).

As for a bite from one of these, the size of the head just makes for huge venom glands! Rather not.

Get rid of it. You most certainly aren't ready for it.

The sad thing about snakes like that is how easy they are to obtain, and how cheap.

[scubagecko]

Oh don't worry too much, its gone. I miss it in a way. I even wrestled it once. It was very strong, very angry and turned into a poop catapult when it couldn't get its very respectable fangs into me. And a large quantity of venom seemed to come from its seemingly crocodile-sized head! Okay, maybe only seemingly-cat-sized head. About a liter of venom? Two? Okay, maybe two teaspoons. Enough to kill me several hundred times anyway! Okay, dozens! Well, after I'm dead once I won't care how many more times it could kill me....
One thing I keep forgetting when I post about my snakes is that I NEVER EVER touch my snakes! If it won't be picked up with the hooks then it just isn't picked up and I have to wait for some other time. There is no need for me to bully them and make them mad. I can wait for them.
As for snakes to keep (not beginners though), if you can get antivenom injected in time , if you are bitten, then green mambas are good just from a venom viewpoint because the antivenom reverses all of the venom's effects. You need to hurry though.... Crotalids destroy your tissue forever , other Elapids leave your nervous system impaired even after the antivenom is given. And just think of them s-l-o-w-l-y exhaling like Death coming to visit which is not like anything else I have ever heard!
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Torture data and it will confess to anything.

[Niek]

I have now 1.1 forest cobras. The male is cb 2005 and from the start on very calm. BUT I also only work with shiftboxes and he most of the time goes inside these boxes in a very fast slide. He has until now ,never hooded at me or got pissed of at me when I was feeding it etc. Last show in Hamm I bought an cb06 female. and I can tell you ,,, she is mad as hell. When only standing in front of her cage she stands up as high as she can and will open her mouth and strike repediatly everytime I am moving something of my body. She even reacts on only the movement of my eyes . They are as I have read and seen , one of the smartes cobra species. When you can "fool" a kaouthia or naja bij making movement somewhere so they will go that way the forest will just follow the movement towards your body and go for it. I have heard different people tell that they were running for their lives as the forest cobra was out of the cage and attacking them standing high and like that crawling fast towards the owner :s..
Yes they are snakes that are indeed dangerous!!! And when you give them a chance to kill you they will do that with all the love they have for you ..

But as I was reading the post I saw that WW also said that Pseudechis colletti as starter elapid.. could you please tell me why you say this?? I allways thought that they were elapids that are also extreemly fast and willing to kill

cheers niek
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we are better of without you.

[Venomdoc]

Some black snakes (Pseudechis genus) are quite chilled. Very much so indeed. Others however are mental. Typically collets, red-bellieds (Pseudechis porphyriacus) and many individuals of spotted blacks (Pseudechis guttatus) are quite chilled as adults. As babies however they are a bit friskier and more inclinded to bite. Also as babies they are very whippy fast in a sidewise flick of a strike. Also adults will bite and it will bloody hurt. Not likely to be lethal but you might want it to end just to make the pain stop. Further, you do stand some of a chance of losing your finger. The Pseudechis venoms are all very rich in PLA2 toxins. Many of which target the muscles. Hence the pain

So well-known as lethal or 'not likely to be lethal' all should be given the same respect. However, that doesn't mean some aren't a bloody hell lot easier to learn off than others. Red-bellieds and Colletts are easy snakes to learn on. Still a steep learning curve however to move up to taipans or mambas.

Cheers
B
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Department of Biochemistry,
Bio21 Institute,
University of Melbourne,
Australia
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Faith can't be put in a test tube. Thats why it shouldn't be put in a science classroom.
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Faith (noun). Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence
Science (noun). The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation and theoretical explanation of phenomena. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.

[bitisbitis]

Based on this thread I would like the view on what members think of the following snakes, regarding temperament etc.

Cape Cobra
Red Spitter
Nubian Cobra
Mozambique Spitter
Green Mamba
Moroccan Black Cobra
Rinkhals

Thanks

[dendroaspis]

Cape Cobras can be aggressive, and have a rather potent venom
Red Spitters are very agro in the beginning, but settle down well
Dunno about Nubian Cobras
Mozambique Spitters are very nervous, but also settle down well. Hearty appetites
Green Mambas are very sedate, but this makes them unpredictable. They have no pre-bite warning.
Morroccan's are very aggressive, and tend to remain like this
Rinkhals are stroppy, but great first elapids to keep.
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ngiyakuthanda Sonvanger

[andyoconnor83]

[Miguel Angel]

In my opinion naja pallida ( as other spitting snakes ) are not a good choize to introduce in elapids. My naja pallida is really fast and spit to any movement.

Spitters definitly not ( due to the prolems of breathing microscopic venom drops in the air even if you use mask )

Is difficult to select a naja specie to be the first , but probably naja kaouthia could be the best naja .

[LucasC.]

Hi there,

I allow me to answer about my experience about the snakes mentioned. I keep or kept a lot of the snakes that werde mentioned.

First, I'd like to say that there is, in my way of thinking, no cobra to start with, neither a hot to start with. As Dr mentioned it, there always should be a "training phase" with an experienced keeper before buying one of those snakes. This will be obligatory over here in Switzerland, and they plan to not let someone start with cobras. You'll have to prove at least one year or more experience with other venomous snakes to go over to "large" elapids.

I use to say that with most of the cobras family, when the snake has a correct caracter, it will be ok for the 95% of time. The problem is for the last 5% of time when the cobra's really angry. This happens from time to time, and at this point, a N.kaouthia, as a spitter, or any other "big" elapid, is very dangerous. I could observe quite impressive defensive behaviours in different species, as I keep often more than 3 specimens adults of each specie. And at this point, if you don't have the experience needed in handling bigger elapids, the accident awaits.

As it concerns Naja melanoleuca, a good friend of mine, who keeps actually different mambas, all kind of elapids, and forest cobras, told me that I could start over with D.angusticeps, that they could be easier as the forest cobras. No that I keep both, I can tell that the "imprevisible" of the forest cobra, joined to his size and weight is quite a factor of risk! When you get a 2m20 big forest really angry, you can let some drops out!

So, this all to say, that before any buy, you should get some experience with confirmed breeders / keepers of those snakes, to get your own impression, and to let someone guide you.

Cheers
LucasC.
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Cheers
from Switzerland

LucasC.