BeardedLeos - With the large drop in price of Leopard Geckos and the increse in quanity where do you see the future of leos going?
SteveandKelliH - Well, it will be similar to the corn snakes market i think
SteveandKelliH - lots and lots of color morphs, not as high of prices
SteveandKelliH - i think there will always be a demand for them though

Gecko113 - Kelli and Steve do you have a personal favorite leopard gecko morph, and if so what is it?
SteveandKelliH - The Patternless Albino Rainwater line by far.
SteveandKelliH - They are the nicest we have seen and have lots of potential for crossing into other morphs.
SteveandKelliH - next

JakeRoyal - How much money do you expect the patternless albino leos to be going for at this time next year?
SteveandKelliH - Realisticly, they should be not much less than they are now. Perhaps down to $200-$250.
SteveandKelliH - They are a double recessive so there will not be as many produced as the albinos or blizzards, for example.

The-Gecko-Den - I have heard that Ron Tremper is working on a "huge" or "giant" leopard gecko morph, is this true?
SteveandKelliH - We have heaerd that also, but do not know for sure. There are supposed to be some larger montane forms. You can even see it is some that are on the market today. Some lines are larger than others.
The-Gecko-Den - okay thanks
SteveandKelliH - It sure would be cool to see a foot long 150 gram blazing blizard.

TokayKeeper - so when can I expect my 100 lot of free carrot-tail leos and trio of piebald leos? Actually, just a testimony to the Patternless Albinos...http://webpages.charter.net/geckos/rainwater/patternlessRWalbinoMale.jpg - Little guy came from Kelli after waiting 3 hours for AirBorne Express to delivery it to the RIGHT address
SteveandKelliH - Sorry, not our fault! Airborne has left us wondering sometimes.
TokayKeeper - lol
SteveandKelliH - How is the leo doing for you?
TokayKeeper - question is did you have any hair left
TokayKeeper - doing great
SteveandKelliH - Me, no, Kelli, yes.
TokayKeeper - hit 15 grams coulpe days ago

vettesherps - Is there a secret to getting a stubborn pair of leos to breed
SteveandKelliH - Try cooling them for a period before introducing them. This usually always works for us.

WiLd_PuNk - i have heard of red and blue morphs, when should we expect them on the market and cost?
SteveandKelliH - Red not too far in the future but I have never even heard of a blue one. Not sure the blue one will ever appear.
SteveandKelliH - The reds in the next couple of years and who knows on the blues.

BeardedLeos - What are your feelings on keeping leos in racks? What sized tub is good for 1 leo?
SteveandKelliH - A sweater box size for one leo. We use racks exclusively and have great luck. We raise the babies 2 per shoe box. The one adult box is a 12 quart.
SteveandKelliH - We find it is best to keep females seperate from males and do male introductions during the breeding season. We get way better production this way and it is easier to keep records and track of the breeding season.

EricW - Just wanted to tell Kelli Howdy from Eric down in College Station. :)
SteveandKelliH - Hello Eric.

Gecko113 - Do you believe more leopard gecko morphs will appear such as piebalds and true leucistics in the near future?
SteveandKelliH - We feel that the blizzards are not a true leucistic, some people do though. Have never heard of piebald leos though. We have heard of a piebald fat tails, but they just usually have different colored feet and toes.
SteveandKelliH - It is hard to know if these will pop up or not, but with the numbers being produced, more and more morphs will pop up. We are looking forward to our first albino carrot tail.

FrankW - What feeders do you feed?
SteveandKelliH - Both crickets and mealworms as a staple and supplement the females during the breeding season with silkworms and waxworms.
SteveandKelliH - We dust our food with Miner-all and leave a dish of calcium in at all times during the breeding season.
SteveandKelliH - Oh yea, and an occassional pinky mouse.
JakeRoyal - how many leos do you think you will breed this year, how many last year?
SteveandKelliH - Breed or produce?
JakeRoyal - breed
JakeRoyal - or produce
JakeRoyal - my bad
SteveandKelliH - Last year we produced about 800 and this year around 1000.
SteveandKelliH - It is basically a full time job with the leos. Absolutely thousands are produced each year by breeders. I know one breeder in florida that right now could ship you 15,000 baby leos if you needed them.

MichHerper - How hard is it to get a leopard gecko on prekilled pinkies?
SteveandKelliH - Mich, not too hard. Just offer it on forceps and wiggle it a little and that should do it.
MichHerper - thank you

NickAsher - How often is new blood lines introduced into the phases we have now? Is there any time soon where the phases we love will be so inbreed that there offspring will be to weak to live or showing mutations?
SteveandKelliH - Nick, there is a lot of inbreeding going on right now and what we have found is that it is safe for 3-4 generations and after that you would note more deformities and weak, smaller babies. Now, we are trying to ourcross as often as we can.
SteveandKelliH - It also depends on how often new wild stock in introduced and incorporated into the breeding projects.

SirRandal - Steve, are you doing the typing? or is Kelli? lol! (probably Kelli) Anyway, there or a bazillion expos today, and I'm wondering, if YOU were doing them, what would be your "perfect show" and how would you make that happen?
SteveandKelliH - One with a lot of leopard geckos.
SirRandal - lol
SteveandKelliH - Seriously, we feel that making sure the animals are healthy, whether captive or wild, is the main thing to us. No sick or weak animals sold.

The-Gecko-Den - Some FYI for kelli, this is Paul aka Shorty...I was wondering, around how much will super hypo tangerines run for by this time next year, will their price enormously drop?
SteveandKelliH - Depends on supply and demand. WE think that there is high demand for top quality hypo carrot tails and hypo tangerines. They just keep getting better and better each year, so it will depend on the market and this can never be predicted.
The-Gecko-Den - Thanks.

TokayKeeper - you mentioned albino carrot-tails, are you looking at this year or next for those
SteveandKelliH - Next year for sure.
SteveandKelliH - WE bred our patternless albino male to some carrot tails this year.
TokayKeeper - any babies yet?
SteveandKelliH - Yes, got some babies now. Hines is working with them already with the tremper line albinos.

vettesherps - I have a 8 month old leucistic that shows some signs of having a carrot tail.(about 1/16 inch at base of tail top 2/3) How can I get this trait to become more prevelent?
SteveandKelliH - Look for others with similar colors and hold back the best babies each year that show this trait.
vettesherps - follow up
SteveandKelliH - It is line breeding and eventually you will need to outcross, but it does work.

WiLd_PuNk - i was wanting to build a melamine cage 8ft(L) X 2ft(W) X 1.5ft(H) to house leos. i was told that it would house 18 leos comfortably, whats your opinion?
SteveandKelliH - You could, but we prefer to keep them is smaller cages and smaller numbers to keep better track of the animals.
WiLd_PuNk - ok
SteveandKelliH - It will be hard to keep track of them and they do tend to stress out more in group situations.

matt2 - my turn: do you guys ever cut an egg, if so how long after the female has layed
SteveandKelliH - With leos, it depends if you are incubating for male or female. males usually go about 45 days and females 60 or so. If they start dimpling and have not hatched in a day or so, we slit, or if a clutch mate has hatched and the other egg has not, then we slit.
SteveandKelliH - Usually you do not have to though.

BeardedLeos - Right now i am using rabbit pellets as a substrate because i have found it is not harmfull to the leos when ingested...what are your feelings on rabbit pellets and/or sand?
SteveandKelliH - Kelli has tried about every substrate there is, including rabbit pellets, and she always goes back to paper towels.
SteveandKelliH - The problem was with the fungusing of the wet pellets and if they ingested one, it would expand beyond belief within the leo.
SteveandKelliH - We have used play sand with no problems though, but only on the adults.
BeardedLeos - ok thanks

Finnigan - Personally, I like and keep normals leos, but have been develloping an affection for some of the color morphs. I am concerned about in breeding. I know many of the more pricey/stylish morphs are based on generations of mating children back to the parents. How could this not affect the "quality" of the animal?
SteveandKelliH - After 3-4 generations it is important to outcross your animals to strengthen the lines you are working with.
SteveandKelliH - Tremper has been inbreeding for quite some time, but we do not recommend that in most cases.
TokayKeeper - cough
SteveandKelliH - After awhile you will start seeing problems with inbreeding.
Finnigan - Thanks ... that's what I figured ... it just doesn't make sense.

Gecko113 - I know this is off topic but where do you expect the Kenyan Sand Boa market to go and has it reached its high point yet?
SteveandKelliH - Definitely reached its high point already, but the market in all forms of herps has always gone up and down, so in the not too distan future it could rebound.
SteveandKelliH - In fact, we have had a lot of requests this year for our kenyans, and hardly any requests last year.
SteveandKelliH - The prices have just about stabled out for the different morphs of kenyans as well.
Gecko113 - thanx may be purchasing some from you in the near future

JakeRoyal - how do you change in wild caught animals into your breeding projects when the animals in your projects are rare morphs? along with your own morphs that nobody else has. will it set back the projects by introducing normals into it?
JakeRoyal - sorry, jumbled question
SteveandKelliH - Just breed some of the morphs back to the wild forms to get a base of outcrossed juveniles to work with in the future.
SteveandKelliH - This will strenthen the lines you are working with and still allow you to work with the morphs as well.
JakeRoyal - thanks
SteveandKelliH - Otcrossing does take time, but it is very important to keep things going for futre stock.

MichHerper - This is my very first time breeding leopard geckos, much less any herp. I was lucky enough to have my first egg be fertile. It has been 42 days, incubated at 85 degrees. I candled the egg today and I can see a large red mass taking up half the egg that is hugging the right side. Any idea how long until the egg should hatch?
SteveandKelliH - It should hatch around day 58 - 60, so you still have some time to go on it.
SteveandKelliH - Be patient and it will happen.
MichHerper - thank you

Steve19 - I cut an egg 3 days after the clutch mate had hatched...the gecko didnt seem to be fully developed and died...did I do something worng? Should I have waited a week?
SteveandKelliH - No, it sounds like it was a weak baby and would not have been hearlthy in the first place.
SteveandKelliH - Or it would have died in the egg.
Steve19 - what would casue that?
SteveandKelliH - Weak genes, random bad luck, who really knows for sure.
Steve19 - thanks
SteveandKelliH - We have that sometimes also, a perfect baby and a weak clutch mate.

The-Gecko-Den - Would calcium carbonate from Home Depot(also known as powdered limestone) mixed with fine play sand with a 1:1 ratio be good for a breeder group in a rack system(a 6 feet wide x 4 feet tall x 2 feet deep with supports)? I figured it would also be able to serve as a calcium source, even though i am providing calcium in a dish.
SteveandKelliH - Gecko Den, you really don't need to do that, you could just leave the calcium in a dish.
SteveandKelliH - They will eat it out of the dish when they need it.
The-Gecko-Den - Alright, thanks.

WiLd_PuNk - that question i asked a few minutes ago about that big cage, what would be the best substrate for such a large cage?
SteveandKelliH - Sand would probably be the easiest, or newspaper would work as well.
matt2 - Folks, we're up on the hour, Steve and kelli; would you like to continue on for an additional half hour?
WiLd_PuNk - ok what about felt
SteveandKelliH - Felt would be much more difficult to keep clean and it would also be more likely to harbor bacteria.

matt2 - ok, let me request this; could Steve and kelli, for those that don't know..post their url for site and who/what they do?
SteveandKelliH - http://www.hisss.net
brodaspy - Sorry to interupt, just wanted to inform you that the link from Kingsnake.com doesn't bring you to this room
SteveandKelliH - We work with a large variety of colubrids, boids, and leopard geckos.
SteveandKelliH - Steve also works at the Fort Worth Zoo in the herp house.
SteveandKelliH - Kelli maintains most of the home collection and the baby, Conor.
Gecko113 - finally a zoo that has a herp person that knows sumthing
NickAsher - wheres the zoo at?
JakeRoyal - fort worth
NickAsher - wheres that at
NickAsher - dang jake
SteveandKelliH - Fort Worth, TX
NickAsher - ok

MichHerper - Work with any asian elaphe?
SteveandKelliH - Yes, blue beauties, red-tail green rats, rhyncophis, and hopegully next year the first albino red-tail green rats.
SteveandKelliH - Getting ridleyi in a week or so.
MichHerper - May I ask how large the blue beauties are?
matt2 - June's Guest was suppose to be Gerald Merker, however due to family illness he wasn't able to make it, I contacted Kelli at last min and she and Steve agreed to jump in - I think thats pretty kewl of True Herpers
matt2 - just my 2c worth
SteveandKelliH - Female between 7-8 ft and the male about 7.
MichHerper - I currently have a pair of friesi, but I am thinking of getting some blue beauties or ridleyi

The-Gecko-Den - thanks for coming Steve and Kelli.
The-Gecko-Den - this is my first guestchat.
SteveandKelliH - Bleu beauties are nice looking but can be a handfull and want top handle them regularly or you will regret not handling them.
matt2 - ok, lets start again, just wanted to say a special thanks on behalf of myself and JeffB and K.com
MichHerper - Yes, thank you
SteveandKelliH - None right now Jake. but we do have 2 gracid females at this time.
JakeRoyal - what are they
JakeRoyal - what morph SteveandKelliH - One is a hypo female bred to a double het for snow male and the other is a double het for snow
female bred to a snow male.

Grok - What technologies and new knowledge can improve the conditions of our leopards?
matt2 - and a quick question: as full as this room is; you folks think we should ask them back for dec's Guestchat Week?

The-Gecko-Den - yes matt2
The-Gecko-Den - :-D
boaburmman18 - sure why not matt2
Gecko113 - yes
MichHerper - Yes Matt, maybe on asian elaphe? :)
The-Gecko-Den - LOL why not next month? j/p
JakeRoyal - maybe on snakes of some sorts
Gecko113 - or boids

matt2 - ok; lets start: my turn: Kelli..w/the advent of alterna-fevor; will you guys now go into color morphs of?
SteveandKelliH - Grok, the best thing I can think of is not to push the females and breed them too early or young and to outcross your animals after 3-4 generations of inbreeding.
SteveandKelliH - WE do not have alterna fever, we were acutually there looking for bairdi and subocs and just happened onto an alterna.
matt2 - very nice alterna too
SteveandKelliH - It was really cool, before I could get out of the car Kelli had already grabbed it!
boaburmman18 - what would you say the most popular leo morph would be
SteveandKelliH - We also saw an adult coral snake that did get away. I really wanted that snake and would like to work with corals in the future.
SteveandKelliH - Probably the hypo carrot tails right now.
matt2 - quick followup; so corals range that far west

Reptiluvr - Kelli>have you worked with or scene any of the E. macularius subspecies (montanus, etc)
MikeM - ill sell you mine for 1 billion
SteveandKelliH - WE have only seen pics but have not worked with them yet.
SteveandKelliH - Matt, yes they do and they are big too.

Finnigan - I'm sorry, somewhat similar to a question asked earlier. I'm breeding leos for the first time, baby from first clutch hatched on monday. Clutchmate egg is big and seems healthy but seemingly nowhere near hatching. No denting, sweating etc. Anything to worry about? Thanks again for the help.
SteveandKelliH - Well, we have had this happen also. By now we would slit it and sometimes there is a nice looking egg with nothing in it but yolk. it has a perfect shell but nothing in it. If you slit and see clear fluid it is a good egg and the baby will be out shortly, if it is a yellow fluid it is a bad egg.
Finnigan - how do I slit it? is there a specific/right way to do it?
SteveandKelliH - Just be careful, and we use cuticle scissors from the drug store. We also have a pair fo fine scissors from when I got stiches and they work well also.
Finnigan - ok, thanks very much
SteveandKelliH - Pinch a small area and make a small cut in it, then work your way down about 1/2 inch but be careful not to cut too deep.

Gecko113 - As you saw earlier what reptiles do you believe will be popular in the next few years?
SteveandKelliH - Leopard gecko eggs, but slitting procedure will work with any eggs.
SteveandKelliH - More morphs of boas, ball pythons ( I hated to say this about the balls), other pythons and leopard geckoes. Pretty much the same things that are popular now.

Grok - What new or existing technologies or knowledge would help E-macs?
SteveandKelliH - Not sure I understand what you are asking?
matt2 - me either
SteveandKelliH - What technology is there?
Grok - proportional thermostats
Grok - I guess I'm trying to get around to asking you what's important in taking care of leopards.
SteveandKelliH - You don't need those to breed leos and would not really make much of a difference with these guys.
SteveandKelliH - Keeping their enclosure clean, giving them a variety in their diet, housing the males seperate from female and doing introductions during the breeding seanon, proper supplementation, don;t breed them when they are too small or under a year old.
Grok - Thx.
SteveandKelliH - They are realy very simple to breed and it can be done in a rack system like most colubrid snakes.
SteveandKelliH - Offer them a calcium supplement in a dish, a water bowl, a moist hide area (also used for egg laying).

Jungle_Leo - Sorry, off topic but what new Kenyan sand boa morphs if any do you believe will be available in the near future?And any idea how long until the price on paradox albinos will come down?
SteveandKelliH - The paradox are the only new morphs I am aware of. As more are produced the price will eventually come down. Probably a couple of years and the price will start to come down some.

MichHerper - A little off the subject but, do you think or have you seen any effects of breeding blue beauty snakes at their maturity age of 18 months? I have heard that it will stunt their growth, produce bad clutches. And yet some breeders say their adults reach full size. One in particule, Clay Davenport breed his taiwans at 18 months and got a clutch of 13 eggs. Do you see any problems in breeding beauty snakes at 18 months?
SteveandKelliH - No, not if they are large enough. It would probably be better to wait till the following season though.

Mills - Do you know what Ron Tremper has in store for the Leopard Gecko community at the Daytona Expo in August? If not, what is your best guess?
SteveandKelliH - Don't know, is he offering some sort of surprise?
SteveandKelliH - Maybe it is the blue one he keeps talking about.
Mills - The first popup at Leopardgecko.com says a HUGE surprise
SteveandKelliH - Frankly, I would like to see a blue leo.
Mills - Thanks!
SteveandKelliH - Who knows, it sounds interesting.

The-Gecko-Den - Are there any types of geckos that you would suggest investing in, and is it important to use a dimmer/rheostat in a rack system for breeder leos/hatchling leos?
SteveandKelliH - Yes, use some sort or dimmer or rheostat or better yet a thermostat of some sort.
SteveandKelliH - If you have the money buy what is hot now and buy the top of the line you can find.
The-Gecko-Den - alright, thank you.

theMAC01 - someone asked me today to recommend a good gecko to start out with purely as a pet. what would you tell them?
SteveandKelliH - A leopard gecko or a fat tail, either would make an easy first pet.
theMAC01 - thank you

matt2 - last question, mine: a hubby/wife team, the Oregon Herp society, back in '94-95 did a study on Reptical w/reported results that it contains 50% more calcium than needed for leos/herps
matt2 - any update/opinon on this
SteveandKelliH - Well, it is hard to over calicify a herp, but you can give them vitamin toxicity. They will excrete excess calium out of their system, so I would not worry about it too much, in my opinion.
matt2 - thanks, so much

matt2 - welp, folks I believe we're bout outa time, but again I would like to thank Steve and Kelli who have done so much for our Guestchats
SteveandKelliH - You are welcome and we appreciat the invitation.
matt2 - and we wanna see them back for Dec's Guestchat week!!
SteveandKelliH - We would love to come back in December during chat week.
matt2 - for those of you who may wish to continue chating herps, please join us in #kingsnake
SteveandKelliH - Thanks again everyone.
MichHerper - thank you for everything
TheGeckoDen-BRB - Thank you both.
SteveandKelliH - Good night everyone.
TheGeckoDen-BRB - g'night.
TheGeckoDen-BRB - LOL Erik
matt2 - adios and best of leo and alterna herp'n
TheGeckoDen-BRB - :-D