jeffb Ok our next guest is world reknowned corn snake breeder Don
Soderberg who is going to chat with us tonight about corn snake genetics
and what we can look forward too
jeffb welcome Don
DonS Hi, y'all
jeffb ok we can start where we left off ...
DonS Hi, Matt
jeffb I think that Randal had the last question matt
jeffb so that would make ratrace next correct?
snakeranger Matt--Sorry. I thought my ? would go to you for screening.
Don: Iam concerned about the impact of 'herping' and the pet trade in US
& foreign imports (CITES or not), taking, but not returning to the environment,
in areas where pops are not inventoried & monitored. What u think?
DonS There is much out there about the don'ts of importing. I'll
go on. . .
matt2 (Jeff - those who do not know: can Don introduce himself and
what he wishes to be asked q's about)
DonS I don't believe we can keep taking from places like Africa and
keep peace with Mother Nature. . .
DonS Here in the states, it's monitored more than you think. next.
DonS I'm Don Soderberg of South Mountain Reptiles . . .
DonS We specialize in the breeding of corn and rat snakes, but do
Pituophis, Nasicus, Lampropeltis and more . . .
DonS If you have any questions about the different morphs of corns,
rats and so on, COME ON DOWN
sneakyserpent what do you think the future holds for corn morphs
as far as crossings go? and which one are you most looking forward too?
DonS I thought we were done years ago and there seems to be something
like four or five new morhps each year. . .
DonS I don't see a bottom to this bucket. There will always be new
colors and patterns. next
applegate No question, just hello, and we need to get together again
Androctonus ok cornsnakes_is there any officail number to how many phases/morphs
Androctonus sorry toook a bit
DonS Yeah, Bob. I'll catch up to you somewhere
DonS About numbers of morphs, I don't think so. I'm guessing somewhere
in the neighborhood of 80 if ou count all the color and pattern combos.
BradK Howdy Don, no question, but here's a link on heartwater everyone
needs to read, make of it what you will: http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_37/b3698141.htm
ClintBoyer Hey Don, Any new morphs you can share with us? What morph
are you most excited about working with next year?
DonS Nothing in particular. As everyone knows, I'm crazy about the
variations of bloodreds. . .
DonS I'll post the new ones on my site when the season comes again.
Nice reading from ya, Clint. next
drewG What's the story with the albino emori Don - where did the originator
DonS The first one was caught in a back yard in E. Kansas by a little
old lady that sold it to me. There have been about four caught in Kansas,
Oklahoma and Texas since. next
herpinboy whats the best temp to keep corn eggs at?
DonS I incubate between 80 and 82, but you can go slightly lower
and slightly higher.next
matt2 (Don, now the next one i call upon is herpo..an immigrant in Abelene,Tx..name
is John Hollister er so he claims)
DonS I'm ready for HIM
matt2 he's 60 and alseep acroos keyboard
DonS I'm sure you're right. It's past his bedtime
JaymzO What do you feel about gene and colour morphing in corns?
jeffb no free coffee here don
DonS I think the breeding of all the colors and patterns is what
we're here to do. If you are referring to crossing them with other species/genera,
I'm neutral on the subject. . .
DonS Some people take this too seriously. We're not dealing with
an endangered species. next
matt2 (hollister is endangered..ain't no 2 like him, thank God!)
matt2 unless ya count Buzz in ft. davis
DonS Don't insult Buzz
K-roc ok. don what have you been working on most recently and been putting
most of your time and effort into
DonS The bloodreds. I'll expound . . .
DonS The lavender and butters into the bloodreds. The butter and
lavender stripes and of course the addition of hypo to those. next
K-roc f/up- ive never seen or really heard of the bloodreds. do you
have a webiste where you might have a pic or 2
DonS Our web site is www.cornsnake.NET
DonS We have a few of the bloodreds listed and are going to add about
four to that this coming season. next
KingOZ Piebald corns/rats/kings....when do you think they will be avaliable,
is this morph possible?
DonS No sugh things. I'll explain. . . .
DonS The pieds have never existed contrary to photographs of a deformed
one that never reproduced . . .
DonS The calico is documented as being the result of a genetic disorder
and we don't want to promote that. next
matt2 Night: Ron Billingsly; yet another Old Timer; likes to go out
and catch wc albinos:
NightCreatures Do you feel Albinos are poping up more regualary now?
or that it's just more people are out herping, and finding them?
DonS I think it's both. . .
NightCreatures follow up?
matt2 sure, ron
NightCreatures recently in Indiana, we have found Albino Box Turtle,
Eastern Hognose, Kirtland snake, etc etc
DonS There have been about four subocs found in the past few years.
There are actually less road hunters out there now than there were in the
80s so it's all of the above.
plomosa Are you going to attempt to produce a "snow" Transpecos Ratsnake
by crossing the albinos with the silvers?
DonS We already have triple hets of the amel., axanthic and blonde
genes. We're working on it. next
DonS Way cool
rachl What are some of the more unusal and complex genetic lines and
how do you keep track of all the genetic possiblity within this species?
DonS Keeping track of our inventory is a matter of accounting. Keeping
the punnets is another story . . .
DonS It's a nightmare to consider the possibilities of quadruple
recessives. Gives me a headache. next
DonS Sorry I didn't answer about the complex genetics. There just
isn't enough time for these old fingers to type it all out.
DonS BTW. Any of my friends that hunted with Kerry Touchstone, might
want to know that he passed away last week. We'll miss him sorely.
jordrod92 sorry to hear that Don
Snakebyt2000 has you tried creamcsicle corns using the albino emori
DonS I tried it once back in the early 90s and was very disappointed.
They looked like both animals and it was almost impossible to tell them
apart. I don't encourage anyone to do that. next
snakeranger I checked for permission to use a snake brought to ranger
stn in an off-site program, teaching how to release snake safely, etc, and
wildlife folks said 'no restrictions' on catching & keeping snakes. Re kings:
why is their serp & conc locomotion so lithe compared to Pituophis? It's
gotta be an inner structural difference! Best temp for P. m. m. eggs?
DonS I have often wondered the same, but never took the time to research
the anatomical possibilities. Let me know if you find out. I hatch my bulls
at 82 deg. F.. next
SnakesAndStuff DonS: A friend of mine here in Arkansas recently bought
a leucistic tx rat and a snow corn from you... They have another leucistic
tx rat that has several dark colored scales on it and from talking to you
they got the impression that this was not the norm... Is a leucistic ratsnake
a true luecistic, or is there something else going on, hence the leucistic
rats with the dark colored scales popping up? (how is that albino glo
DonS I have orange scales on most of my leucistics. Just a few on
each one. I have never had, but have heard of a few that had dark spots.
I'd have to say that is rare and worth promoting. I don't know why that
is. Keep in touch with me on those. next
DonS Thanx, John.
jeffb How accurate is the cornsanke poster that Ed Acuna painted
jeffb have you seen it?
DonS I have only seen the thumb in your banner. From that, it looks
good to me. Wish I could paint like that. next
matt2 my turn; haven't had the chance yet to met Don but lookin forward
too, just moved to Midland,Tx from Oregon this past summer.
Herpo oregon's gain, Texas' loss
DonS I just moved here to Texas from Kansas three years ago. Welcome
matt2 apple-somebody-er other
matt2 thanks Don
applegate Don, keep up the good work, no questions about feeder snakes!
matt2 sorry, Julie isn't in tonight
DonS Got me, Bob. I'll get out your way one of these days and we'll
do lunch. next
BradK How much longer do you forsee the corncraze lasting, is there
still a market for the newer hodgepodge morphs?
Bekk how readily available are platinum subocs these days?
DonS Yes, still a good market. I didn't think so a few years ago,
but both ends of the market are thriving. The low end for a good tame low
priced snake pet and the upper ends for the new ones constantly coming out
each season. . .
DonS The cutting edge corns are actually climbing in value. Some
of the new ones are fetching as much as $500.00 each. Yippeeee. next
jordrod92 ?'s above
Bekk sorry, was asking on the availability of platinum subocs
DonS If you're referring to the axanthics, the blondes are out there
in fair numbers, but the normally patterned axanthics are still hard to
come by. next
drewG Are the 277, 170 or Euro albino suboc strains compatible?
drewG they're all over the place
DonS I don't think so. I don't know about the Euro one, but I doubt
mine and the W. River Rd. genes are. The jury is still out on this one.
GlennB Don, are you still working with Durango Mountain Kingsnakes?
I bought one from you at the San Antonio show a couple of years ago. It
seems really light compared to some of the others I have seen. Any info
on where its line may have come from?
DonS I don't know, but I can find out from the people I got mine
from. Yes, I still breed them. Love 'em. next
DonS San Antonio is coming up again this weekend. Will you be there?
GlennB follow up
matt2 I will, Don
jordrod92 me too:)
GlennB will you be there Don
DonS Anyone in the area, come in and see some of the adult examples
of some of the cutting edge corns I'll have on display this weekend in San
matt2 do we get discounts?
GlennB Thank You
DonS Nahhh. Just a handshake
matt2 ya sound like Hollistert
herpinboy should i cool my corn snakes before i try and breed them or
just leave them alone?
DonS I wanna be just like him when I grow up . . . . . not.
DonS It is not necessary to cool corns prior to breeding, but it
does give you a slight edge on those that don't. I find that the corns I
don't brumate are the first to breed each year. next
herpinboy ok thanks
DonS That was supposed to be a lol.
MutantRoach good idea
DonS Johnbob Hollister
Herpo do you have an easily accessible place to launch a boat?
matt2 oh my he is awake
DonS There you go again. No. I'm about a block from the water's edge.
Herpo I'll get the boat down there someday. hasn't been in water
for over 4 years
DonS And no, we're not going to adopt you.
matt2 um john: need to patch the holes first in boat
matt2 ya ever see the Titanic
jordrod92 I just moved to San Antonio, do they have shows every year?
and do u attend?
DonS I'll be at the show this weekend at the Live Oak Civic Center
off Interstate 35 and the Anderson Loop. We have a couple a year there.
Consult Kingsnake.com for dates and details. next
mac In what way are the motley and striped genes related? will breeding
the two together yield a mix of both or het for both? thanks
DonS I have found that if I breed a striped to a motley, I get motleys.
Many of them exhibit some striping, but I have never gotten a striped from
that breeding unless the motley is het. for striped. I know that sounds
funny, but it appears that the striped gene is a recessive within a recessive.
That's just my experience with them. next
MutantRoach is it true corns taste like chicken?
NightCreatures what can you tell me about Amber Corns? what would
'02 hatchlings sell for, any ideas?
DonS I still sell my ambers for $100.00 plu shipping/handling. I
still have some from 2001 and I expect the price to remain the same for
plomosa how many corns do you produce annually and how quickly do
you sell out?
DonS I have about 650 left from the 3,000 or so I started out with.
This coming season, I should break 4,000 and they usually sell out by April.
By February, they're getting picked over pretty good. next
rachl im very interested in working with herps, my question is are there
any good jobs out there where you can work with gentics, health and maybe
disease or reasearch? thx
rachl and of corse corns
DonS Not that I'm aware of, but you should ask that question on some
of the forums. I'm sure they're out there, but like everything, you have
to look in the right places. next
jeffb Corn Snakes taste like Orange Roughy
snakeranger Is there ANY truth to the rumor that P. c. can eat Pr. Rattlers?
If so, how? They are not immune to the venom, or are they? If Kings are,
which ones? Got a reference?
snakeranger Everyone must be getting hungry...
DonS I don't have a reference for that data, but I have seen rattlers
envenomate kings and there was no death. Not from the bite anyway. I assume
you are referring to a Pituophis when you say, "P.c.". Not sure about that.
matt2 (jeff we can go on if you and Don want?)
DonS Fine by me. . .
matt2 (Anytime to razz Hollister is a good time)
gidch thanks for the nice candy canes today don
AMS Are most of your sells as groups to individuals, single animals,
or do you end up wholeselling quite a few to the pet trade?
jeffb what is your web page address
DonS Good question. This year, I have not yet sold to a single pet
shop like I usually do. Most of my sales are first time customers ordering
one to three snakes. next
applegate Don, still chasing those women, or settled in? Kidding, my
best to you and yours!
jeffb that was my question
applegate oops is a yes!
DonS Happy Holidays to you and yours, Bob. next
ClintBoyer Have you seen those hypo emoryi X corns popping up? You got
any? They are real good looking animals! (GOOD TOYS)
DonS I have seen them and they're nice, but I think they look too
much like what they're not supposed to.. I'm worried about people breeding
those to pure corns or pure Emory's and "forgetting" to tell their customers.
gidch when you breed the candys do they all come out the same or
are there different variations
DonS Boy oh boy, those are unpredictable. When I breed two of my
best together, sometimes I only get a couple of screamers in the whole clutch.
matt2 n/p, and welc, hold a few, gidch
herpinboy about how long does it take the corns eggs to hatch, with
the 80 to 82 temps?
DonS 60 days + or- a couple of days. . next
matt2 oh lord; look who's next; the Ole Man from the Abelene Mission,
Herpo Recent literature and some range maps show E. g. guttata in
Texas. Any input on this? Have you ever seen one from TX?
Herpo and what is the access code to your bank account so I can put
some money into it?
DonS I have seen them and I'm not sure what to say about it. The
literature I saw represented too few animals to make finite determinations.
matt2 (don't worry, Don when John was out in Oregona last year he wanted
my comp password to see all my dates)
DonS Nice try. I don't want money. I have all the joy I can handle
with these snakes. . . . NOT
jordrod92 what will u be selling at the SA expo this weekend?
applegate M both of them??!!
matt2 I saw that, Bob
DonS This and that. I'll take about 300 corns and some other stuff.
I'm dumping some adult gray banded kings too. next
mac Do you still have any amel stripes or stripes het for amel left
in stock or am I too late in the season? Any truth to stripes being more
problematic feeders as hatchlings?
DonS My stripes are as hardy as the other corns. I don't have any
of those for sale that I'm aware of. Sometimes, I find some out in the snake
building that I didn't even know I had. next
DonS Yes. next
NightCreatures You said you produced 3,000 hatchlings this year, what
kind of help do you have?
DonS I don't know of any literature or resource material on the catenifer
eating snakes, but I'm sure it's happening. I had a gopher snake eat a hognose
once. They were both adults. next
Sulcatta bill,we were on SAS
Sulcatta is there such thing as a melanistic (like opisite of albino)
DonS I wish there was. No, not at this time. I have offered $3,000.00
for one if it shows up. next
matt2 my turn: Don: I'm hoping to make it to san antonio, Sunday
some of us wanna meet up from chat, is it ok to use a signup sheet at your
Bekk sorry to interject, but I was thinking the same
David15 (I'm Still here, lol)
Tx_Herper not on your life, David
snakeranger How about a show in
ClintBoyer So, is there any truth to the SMR - SerpenCo merger? ;)
DonS Haha. That's a good one. What do you think? Rich, Connie and
I are very good friends, but we're too far from each other. No truth in
gidch how do you get a harlequin corn like the one on kims colubrids
have you ever worked with them
DonS There are a lot of new snake names out there each year. I'm
sure that's a partially dominant trait. Just promote the phooey out of that
look if it pops up in your collection. next
DonS See ya Sat., Glenn
matt2 (sorry Gleen ya gonna be at san antonio?)
matt2 how bout Sun? sever al of us from here are planning to mettup
matt2 sorry, folks
DonS no sweat
DonS Do we have to bring out keyboards?
matt2 lol; hope not
jordrod92 herpinboy passed How big is the show in San Antonio?
usually. What neat varieties will you have there?
DonS I'll have about 20 different corns there. Not alot of the cutting
edge stuff this late in the season, but some of that too. It's not a huge
snow in terms of vendors, but it's a high traffic show. next
plomosa How long did you breed snakes before you quit your job and went
DonS About 20 years. Not much more to say about that. I love my job
snakeranger How about a show in North Dakota!!! Needs serious education,
DonS Didn't they have one there in White Fish or something? next
SnakesAndStuff DonS: would you like pics of the dark scaled leucistic?
DonS Did I just embarrass myself on the subject of geography?
Sulcatta whats a good length (in inches) to breed corns for males and
DonS Yes, on the pics.
DonS Males can successfully breed at 24" and females have been known
to breed at about the same length. I don't like to breed females under 36".
matt2 Glenn we should be thar afternoon: Tx, jord, Bekk, and someone
matt2 I'll leave a signin sheet w/Don
GlennB Cool maybe I'll wait until then
Bekk what time?
DonS We have three tables so you can put a sign up sheet on one of
matt2 we'll have fun meeting
matt2 my turn (jeff's drunk on tequila and tortiallas
matt2 Don; do ya wish to gon on?
GlennB I didn't know tortiallas could do that
DonS I'm running outta things to say and I hear a bunch of snakes
calling out to me in the next room.
gidch do you still have any pewters left and how many breeders do
you have all together
matt2 mexican pancakes
DonS Not a single pewter to be found in the states. Alllll gone.
DonS Are you referring to road kill, matt?
GlennB Don are you working with any different phases of durango?
SnakesAndStuff come on don.. one more round
Bekk sorry to dwell on it, but it sounds like a free for all now..
DonS No. All mine are a little different, but no hypos in the bunch.
matt2 okies, welp, on behalf od Kingsnake.com, JeffB and myself,
we sure appreaicte you're taking of your time tonight, Don
ClintBoyer Thanks Don, I'll talk to you later.
snakeranger Nighty night, gentlemen. I'd best go hibernate for now.
Sweet dreams of corns :) Thanks, Don!
GlennB Thanks Don
DonS My pleasure. We'll do it again. By y'all.
Bekk will you have any platinum suboc at the show?
gidch thanks again don
Herpo thanks don.
matt2 the rest of you folks who may wish to chat have a couple fine
rooms to chose from: #herpchat and #kingsnake
DonS No. on the platinum blondes
DonS night, night. click
Sulcatta its over?
Bekk will see you sunday, thanks Mr. Soderberg
matt2 yeah I think we did hoim in
Bekk see you in kingsnake...
matt2 Bekk we'll all meet at his table
Sulcatta i had a questin
Herpo I didn't get a chance to ask him why his twin brother is so
much nicer than he is.
matt2 ok, folks; this concludes tonight Guestchat; hope to see ya
all tomorrow night