Dec 11, 2001
Don Soderberg
Cornsnake Genetics

jeffb Ok our next guest is world reknowned corn snake breeder Don Soderberg who is going to chat with us tonight about corn snake genetics and what we can look forward too
jeffb welcome Don
DonS Hi, y'all
jeffb ok we can start where we left off ...
DonS Hi, Matt

jeffb I think that Randal had the last question matt
jeffb so that would make ratrace next correct?

snakeranger Matt--Sorry. I thought my ? would go to you for screening. Don: Iam concerned about the impact of 'herping' and the pet trade in US & foreign imports (CITES or not), taking, but not returning to the environment, in areas where pops are not inventoried & monitored. What u think?
DonS There is much out there about the don'ts of importing. I'll go on. . .
matt2 (Jeff - those who do not know: can Don introduce himself and what he wishes to be asked q's about)
DonS I don't believe we can keep taking from places like Africa and keep peace with Mother Nature. . .
DonS Here in the states, it's monitored more than you think. next.

I'm Don Soderberg of South Mountain Reptiles . . .
DonS We specialize in the breeding of corn and rat snakes, but do Pituophis, Nasicus, Lampropeltis and more . . .
DonS If you have any questions about the different morphs of corns, rats and so on, COME ON DOWN

sneakyserpent what do you think the future holds for corn morphs as far as crossings go? and which one are you most looking forward too? why?
DonS I thought we were done years ago and there seems to be something like four or five new morhps each year. . .
DonS I don't see a bottom to this bucket. There will always be new colors and patterns. next

applegate No question, just hello, and we need to get together again

ok cornsnakes_is there any officail number to how many phases/morphs there are
Androctonus sorry toook a bit
DonS Yeah, Bob. I'll catch up to you somewhere
DonS About numbers of morphs, I don't think so. I'm guessing somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 if ou count all the color and pattern combos. next

Howdy Don, no question, but here's a link on heartwater everyone needs to read, make of it what you will:

ClintBoyer Hey Don, Any new morphs you can share with us? What morph are you most excited about working with next year?
Androctonus thanks
DonS Nothing in particular. As everyone knows, I'm crazy about the variations of bloodreds. . .
DonS I'll post the new ones on my site when the season comes again. Nice reading from ya, Clint. next

What's the story with the albino emori Don - where did the originator pop up?
DonS The first one was caught in a back yard in E. Kansas by a little old lady that sold it to me. There have been about four caught in Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas since. next

whats the best temp to keep corn eggs at?
DonS I incubate between 80 and 82, but you can go slightly lower and slightly

(Don, now the next one i call upon is immigrant in Abelene, is John Hollister er so he claims)
DonS I'm ready for HIM
matt2 he's 60 and alseep acroos keyboard
DonS I'm sure you're right. It's past his bedtime

What do you feel about gene and colour morphing in corns?
jeffb no free coffee here don
DonS I think the breeding of all the colors and patterns is what we're here to do. If you are referring to crossing them with other species/genera, I'm neutral on the subject. . .
jeffb ;)

DonS Some people take this too seriously. We're not dealing with an endangered species. next
matt2 (hollister is endangered..ain't no 2 like him, thank God!)
matt2 unless ya count Buzz in ft. davis
matt2 anyway:
DonS Don't insult Buzz

ok. don what have you been working on most recently and been putting most of your time and effort into
DonS The bloodreds. I'll expound . . .
K-roc ok
DonS The lavender and butters into the bloodreds. The butter and lavender stripes and of course the addition of hypo to those. next

K-roc f/up- ive never seen or really heard of the bloodreds. do you have a webiste where you might have a pic or 2
DonS Our web site is www.cornsnake.NET
K-roc thanks
DonS We have a few of the bloodreds listed and are going to add about four to that this coming season. next

Piebald corns/rats/kings....when do you think they will be avaliable, is this morph possible?
DonS No sugh things. I'll explain. . . .
DonS The pieds have never existed contrary to photographs of a deformed one that never reproduced . . .
DonS The calico is documented as being the result of a genetic disorder and we don't want to promote that. next
matt2 Night: Ron Billingsly; yet another Old Timer; likes to go out and catch wc albinos:

Do you feel Albinos are poping up more regualary now? or that it's just more people are out herping, and finding them?
DonS I think it's both. . .
NightCreatures follow up?
matt2 sure, ron
NightCreatures recently in Indiana, we have found Albino Box Turtle, Eastern Hognose, Kirtland snake, etc etc
DonS There have been about four subocs found in the past few years. There are actually less road hunters out there now than there were in the 80s so it's all of the above.

Are you going to attempt to produce a "snow" Transpecos Ratsnake by crossing the albinos with the silvers?
DonS We already have triple hets of the amel., axanthic and blonde genes. We're working on it. next
plomosa cool
DonS Way cool

What are some of the more unusal and complex genetic lines and how do you keep track of all the genetic possiblity within this species?
DonS Keeping track of our inventory is a matter of accounting. Keeping the punnets is another story . . .
DonS It's a nightmare to consider the possibilities of quadruple recessives. Gives me a headache. next
DonS Sorry I didn't answer about the complex genetics. There just isn't enough time for these old fingers to type it all out.
rachl ok

DonS BTW. Any of my friends that hunted with Kerry Touchstone, might want to know that he passed away last week. We'll miss him sorely.
jordrod92 sorry to hear that Don

has you tried creamcsicle corns using the albino emori yet?
DonS I tried it once back in the early 90s and was very disappointed. They looked like both animals and it was almost impossible to tell them apart. I don't encourage anyone to do that. next

snakeranger I checked for permission to use a snake brought to ranger stn in an off-site program, teaching how to release snake safely, etc, and wildlife folks said 'no restrictions' on catching & keeping snakes. Re kings: why is their serp & conc locomotion so lithe compared to Pituophis? It's gotta be an inner structural difference! Best temp for P. m. m. eggs?
DonS I have often wondered the same, but never took the time to research the anatomical possibilities. Let me know if you find out. I hatch my bulls at 82 deg. F.. next

SnakesAndStuff DonS: A friend of mine here in Arkansas recently bought a leucistic tx rat and a snow corn from you... They have another leucistic tx rat that has several dark colored scales on it and from talking to you they got the impression that this was not the norm... Is a leucistic ratsnake a true luecistic, or is there something else going on, hence the leucistic rats with the dark colored scales popping up? (how is that albino glo
DonS I have orange scales on most of my leucistics. Just a few on each one. I have never had, but have heard of a few that had dark spots. I'd have to say that is rare and worth promoting. I don't know why that is. Keep in touch with me on those. next
DonS Thanx, John.

How accurate is the cornsanke poster that Ed Acuna painted
jeffb ;)
jeffb have you seen it?
DonS I have only seen the thumb in your banner. From that, it looks good to me. Wish I could paint like that. next

my turn; haven't had the chance yet to met Don but lookin forward too, just moved to Midland,Tx from Oregon this past summer.
Herpo oregon's gain, Texas' loss
DonS I just moved here to Texas from Kansas three years ago. Welcome to Texas.
matt2 apple-somebody-er other
matt2 thanks Don

Don, keep up the good work, no questions about feeder snakes! (Just kidding)
matt2 sorry, Julie isn't in tonight
DonS Got me, Bob. I'll get out your way one of these days and we'll do lunch. next

How much longer do you forsee the corncraze lasting, is there still a market for the newer hodgepodge morphs?
Bekk how readily available are platinum subocs these days?
DonS Yes, still a good market. I didn't think so a few years ago, but both ends of the market are thriving. The low end for a good tame low priced snake pet and the upper ends for the new ones constantly coming out each season. . .
DonS The cutting edge corns are actually climbing in value. Some of the new ones are fetching as much as $500.00 each. Yippeeee. next

?'s above
Bekk sorry, was asking on the availability of platinum subocs
DonS If you're referring to the axanthics, the blondes are out there in fair numbers, but the normally patterned axanthics are still hard to come by. next

Are the 277, 170 or Euro albino suboc strains compatible?
drewG they're all over the place
DonS I don't think so. I don't know about the Euro one, but I doubt mine and the W. River Rd. genes are. The jury is still out on this one. next
matt2 GlennB:

Don, are you still working with Durango Mountain Kingsnakes? I bought one from you at the San Antonio show a couple of years ago. It seems really light compared to some of the others I have seen. Any info on where its line may have come from?
DonS I don't know, but I can find out from the people I got mine from. Yes, I still breed them. Love 'em. next
DonS San Antonio is coming up again this weekend. Will you be there?
GlennB follow up
GlennB yes
matt2 I will, Don
jordrod92 me too:)
GlennB will you be there Don
DonS Anyone in the area, come in and see some of the adult examples of some of the cutting edge corns I'll have on display this weekend in San Antonio.
matt2 do we get discounts?
GlennB Thank You
matt2 :)
DonS Nahhh. Just a handshake
matt2 ya sound like Hollistert

should i cool my corn snakes before i try and breed them or just leave them alone?
DonS I wanna be just like him when I grow up . . . . . not.
DonS It is not necessary to cool corns prior to breeding, but it does give you a slight edge on those that don't. I find that the corns I don't brumate are the first to breed each year. next
herpinboy ok thanks
DonS That was supposed to be a lol.
MutantRoach good idea
DonS Johnbob Hollister

do you have an easily accessible place to launch a boat?
matt2 oh my he is awake
DonS There you go again. No. I'm about a block from the water's edge.
Herpo I'll get the boat down there someday. hasn't been in water for over 4 years
DonS And no, we're not going to adopt you.
matt2 um john: need to patch the holes first in boat
matt2 ya ever see the Titanic

I just moved to San Antonio, do they have shows every year? and do u attend?
DonS I'll be at the show this weekend at the Live Oak Civic Center off Interstate 35 and the Anderson Loop. We have a couple a year there. Consult for dates and details. next
mac In what way are the motley and striped genes related? will breeding the two together yield a mix of both or het for both? thanks
DonS I have found that if I breed a striped to a motley, I get motleys. Many of them exhibit some striping, but I have never gotten a striped from that breeding unless the motley is het. for striped. I know that sounds funny, but it appears that the striped gene is a recessive within a recessive. That's just my experience with them. next

is it true corns taste like chicken?
NightCreatures what can you tell me about Amber Corns? what would '02 hatchlings sell for, any ideas?
DonS I still sell my ambers for $100.00 plu shipping/handling. I still have some from 2001 and I expect the price to remain the same for 2002. next

plomosa how many corns do you produce annually and how quickly do you sell out?
DonS I have about 650 left from the 3,000 or so I started out with. This coming season, I should break 4,000 and they usually sell out by April. By February, they're getting picked over pretty good. next

im very interested in working with herps, my question is are there any good jobs out there where you can work with gentics, health and maybe disease or reasearch? thx
rachl and of corse corns
DonS Not that I'm aware of, but you should ask that question on some of the forums. I'm sure they're out there, but like everything, you have to look in the right places. next

Corn Snakes taste like Orange Roughy

Is there ANY truth to the rumor that P. c. can eat Pr. Rattlers? If so, how? They are not immune to the venom, or are they? If Kings are, which ones? Got a reference?
MutantRoach lol
snakeranger Everyone must be getting hungry...
DonS I don't have a reference for that data, but I have seen rattlers envenomate kings and there was no death. Not from the bite anyway. I assume you are referring to a Pituophis when you say, "P.c.". Not sure about that. next

matt2 (jeff we can go on if you and Don want?)
DonS Fine by me. . .
matt2 (Anytime to razz Hollister is a good time)
gidch thanks for the nice candy canes today don

AMS Are most of your sells as groups to individuals, single animals, or do you end up wholeselling quite a few to the pet trade?
jeffb what is your web page address
DonS Good question. This year, I have not yet sold to a single pet shop like I usually do. Most of my sales are first time customers ordering one to three snakes. next
DonS www.cornsnake.NET

Don, still chasing those women, or settled in? Kidding, my best to you and yours!
jeffb that was my question
applegate oops is a yes!
matt2 MIB
herpinboy lol
DonS Happy Holidays to you and yours, Bob. next

Have you seen those hypo emoryi X corns popping up? You got any? They are real good looking animals! (GOOD TOYS)
DonS I have seen them and they're nice, but I think they look too much like what they're not supposed to.. I'm worried about people breeding those to pure corns or pure Emory's and "forgetting" to tell their customers. next

gidch when you breed the candys do they all come out the same or are there different variations
DonS Boy oh boy, those are unpredictable. When I breed two of my best together, sometimes I only get a couple of screamers in the whole clutch. next
matt2 n/p, and welc, hold a few, gidch
herpinboy about how long does it take the corns eggs to hatch, with the 80 to 82 temps?
DonS 60 days + or- a couple of days. . next

oh lord; look who's next; the Ole Man from the Abelene Mission, Herpo:
Herpo Recent literature and some range maps show E. g. guttata in Texas. Any input on this? Have you ever seen one from TX?
Herpo and what is the access code to your bank account so I can put some money into it?
DonS I have seen them and I'm not sure what to say about it. The literature I saw represented too few animals to make finite determinations.

(don't worry, Don when John was out in Oregona last year he wanted my comp password to see all my dates)
DonS Nice try. I don't want money. I have all the joy I can handle with these snakes. . . . NOT

what will u be selling at the SA expo this weekend?
applegate M both of them??!!
matt2 I saw that, Bob
DonS This and that. I'll take about 300 corns and some other stuff. I'm dumping some adult gray banded kings too. next
mac Do you still have any amel stripes or stripes het for amel left in stock or am I too late in the season? Any truth to stripes being more problematic feeders as hatchlings?
DonS My stripes are as hardy as the other corns. I don't have any of those for sale that I'm aware of. Sometimes, I find some out in the snake building that I didn't even know I had. next
DonS Yes. next

You said you produced 3,000 hatchlings this year, what kind of help do you have?
DonS I don't know of any literature or resource material on the catenifer eating snakes, but I'm sure it's happening. I had a gopher snake eat a hognose once. They were both adults. next
Sulcatta bill,we were on SAS

Sulcatta is there such thing as a melanistic (like opisite of albino) corn?
DonS I wish there was. No, not at this time. I have offered $3,000.00 for one if it shows up. next

matt2 my turn: Don: I'm hoping to make it to san antonio, Sunday some of us wanna meet up from chat, is it ok to use a signup sheet at your table?
DonS Sure.
Bekk sorry to interject, but I was thinking the same
David15 (I'm Still here, lol)
Tx_Herper not on your life, David
snakeranger How about a show in

ClintBoyer So, is there any truth to the SMR - SerpenCo merger? ;) just kiddin'
Randal_B pass
DonS Haha. That's a good one. What do you think? Rich, Connie and I are very good friends, but we're too far from each other. No truth in it. next

how do you get a harlequin corn like the one on kims colubrids have you ever worked with them
matt2 gidch
DonS There are a lot of new snake names out there each year. I'm sure that's a partially dominant trait. Just promote the phooey out of that look if it pops up in your collection. next
DonS See ya Sat., Glenn
matt2 (sorry Gleen ya gonna be at san antonio?)
matt2 Glenn
matt2 how bout Sun? sever al of us from here are planning to mettup
matt2 sorry, folks
DonS no sweat
matt2 herpinboy
DonS Do we have to bring out keyboards?
matt2 lol; hope not

herpinboy passed How big is the show in San Antonio? usually. What neat varieties will you have there?
DonS I'll have about 20 different corns there. Not alot of the cutting edge stuff this late in the season, but some of that too. It's not a huge snow in terms of vendors, but it's a high traffic show. next
matt2 plomosa:

How long did you breed snakes before you quit your job and went full time?
DonS About 20 years. Not much more to say about that. I love my job now. next
snakeranger How about a show in North Dakota!!! Needs serious education, yep...
DonS Didn't they have one there in White Fish or something? next

SnakesAndStuff DonS: would you like pics of the dark scaled leucistic?
matt2 Sul:
DonS Did I just embarrass myself on the subject of geography?

whats a good length (in inches) to breed corns for males and females?
DonS Yes, on the pics.
DonS Males can successfully breed at 24" and females have been known to breed at about the same length. I don't like to breed females under 36". next

matt2 Glenn we should be thar afternoon: Tx, jord, Bekk, and someone else
matt2 I'll leave a signin sheet w/Don
GlennB Cool maybe I'll wait until then
Bekk what time?
DonS We have three tables so you can put a sign up sheet on one of them.
matt2 we'll have fun meeting

matt2 my turn (jeff's drunk on tequila and tortiallas
matt2 Don; do ya wish to gon on?
matt2 go
GlennB I didn't know tortiallas could do that
DonS I'm running outta things to say and I hear a bunch of snakes calling out to me in the next room.
gidch do you still have any pewters left and how many breeders do you have all together
matt2 mexican pancakes
DonS Not a single pewter to be found in the states. Alllll gone.
DonS Are you referring to road kill, matt?

Don are you working with any different phases of durango?
SnakesAndStuff come on don.. one more round
Bekk sorry to dwell on it, but it sounds like a free for all now..
DonS No. All mine are a little different, but no hypos in the bunch.
matt2 okies, welp, on behalf od, JeffB and myself, we sure appreaicte you're taking of your time tonight, Don
matt2 of
ClintBoyer Thanks Don, I'll talk to you later.
snakeranger Nighty night, gentlemen. I'd best go hibernate for now. Sweet dreams of corns :) Thanks, Don!
GlennB Thanks Don
DonS My pleasure. We'll do it again. By y'all.
herpinboy cya
Bekk will you have any platinum suboc at the show?
gidch thanks again don
Herpo thanks don.
matt2 the rest of you folks who may wish to chat have a couple fine rooms to chose from: #herpchat and #kingsnake
DonS No. on the platinum blondes
DonS night, night. click
Sulcatta its over?
Bekk will see you sunday, thanks Mr. Soderberg
matt2 yeah I think we did hoim in
matt2 him
Bekk see you in kingsnake...
matt2 Bekk we'll all meet at his table
Sulcatta i had a questin
Herpo I didn't get a chance to ask him why his twin brother is so much nicer than he is.
matt2 lol
Herpo adios
matt2 ok, folks; this concludes tonight Guestchat; hope to see ya all tomorrow night
matt2 adios