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kingsnake.com
Patrick Nabors
Dart frogs
March 1, 2005
PHFaust: Patrick is here to talk on Dart Frogs, Im not sure if
he can help with other frog species, but it is possible. And now PHFlame,
intro please
PHFlame: Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us
tonight!
On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at kingsnake.com, I'm very
pleased to welcome Patrick Nabors to our Seventh Annual Chat Week.
Patrick has been keeping and breeding reptiles and amphibians since
1990. In the mid-nineties the focus of his business, Saurian Enterprises,
began to shift from lizards to dart frogs. He currently maintains a
large collection of dart frogs, and breeds many different species of
frogs and lizards.
Thank you so much for joining us, Patrick, and welcome!
krn: wento on on sunday and i didnt get a chance to talk to that
guy do you think ill ge tot talk tonite ?\
Patrick_nr: Thanks
PHFlame: Thank you for coming to chat this evening. If you have
a question for Patrick, please type “?â€
in the room and you will be added to the queue. You WILL be called on
in the order of ? received. Please do not type openly in the chat room.
Thanks again for coming.
CJinNH: ?
PHFaust: First Up Morila
Geckoholic: ?
krn: ?
PHFaust: Next up Mali
jeffb: ?
Maliyum: what specific dart frogs can be housed together, any
specific plants? And what lizards have you kept in the past?
Patrick_nr: You can keep a lot of dart frogs together, such as
auratus, galactontotus, phyllobates species. In particular tincs and
azureus dont do well together in groups of three or more in medium to
small size tanks.
Laws-Yes: LOL!
geckguy: ?
Patrick_nr: Since the questioner left the room, I wont finish!
GA
PHFaust: Nope patrick Maliyum is still here...
Maliyum: here i am!
PHFaust: go ahead and finish
krn: do you have any bearded dragons .. and is keeping dart frogs
hard and rewarding ?? do you like tegus or have you ever had a tegu
Patrick_nr: Ok, well that pretty well covered it. I dont know
that I can converse that fluently about plants in this forum, and the
list of lizards I have kept is pretty long....many geckos, some monitors,
a few chameleons...GA
WillinFLa: Hey Patrick, long time, figured Id pop in and say
hi
jeffb: And please note - if yoour connection gets dumped and
you have asked a questiuon we alwayd do a chat transcript published
on our site the nnext day
Maliyum: thanks!
PHFaust: Allrighty then, Sengo
SengokuJidai_nr: Patrick, how many Dart Frogs should be housed
together for a community? So that they aren't over crowded and fight...And
how many of each sex would be proper?
Patrick_nr: Hi Will, it has been a long time....look forward
to seeing that website when its done! GA
Patrick_nr: This is hard to say. Generally people throw out between
five and ten gallons per frog, but a lot of variable enter in. I really
cant give a specific answer to such ageneral question. Females tend
to fight the most. GA
SengokuJidai_nr: thanks
PHLdyPayne: no open chatting in the room, we have a special guest
speaiker. If you have any questions, please type a ? and wait to be
called. The topic is dart frogs
PHFaust: Alrighty, Catfur your turn
EnchantedForest: ?
Catfur: What thumbs other than castis, fants, imis and retics
are you working with, and what do you expect to start coming available
in the next year or two.
LeoGeoGuy: ?
palex134: ?
Laws-Yes: !
Patrick_nr: Well, I dont have a whole lot other than these. I
am hoping to offer red ventrimaculatus soon, I am already selling a
few amazonicus to returning customers, and hopefuly in the next year
I will be offering some yellow fantasticus. I also have a couple of
pumilio morphs which are occasionally available. GA
PHLiz: ?
Crocman2020: ?
PHFaust: CJ
CJinNH: At a recent reptile show, dart frogs caught my wife's
eye, and well I know how this works, I need to find out how hard they
are to maintain and where the best info on them can be found. We are
not new to herps but have no experience with amphibians.
Reggie_nr: i had a question ? :(
Patrick_nr: Well, dart frogs are pretty easy to keep, if you
do so correctly. Its important to get things set up right, and get started
right. At the same time as I can say they are easy to keep, they are
also easy to kill. Please check out my site, www.saurian.net I have
a lot of info just for people like you that are just getting started!
GA
PHFaust: Geckoholic
Geckoholic: Hello Patrick, I was wondering if you rely on most
for pumilio egg laying sites? Bromeliads, film containers, "tree
cups" Based on your website I got the impression you like to keep
things as natural as possible
SengokuJidai_nr: !
LonsumGeorge_nr: ?
rockybalboa_nr: ?
Patrick_nr: Pumilio are pretty persistent, you dont really have
to work hard to give them a lay spot. I dont keep any thing special
in their tanks for them to lay on, but they lay a lot on dead leaves
on the bottom of the tank, and primarily I guess on bromeliad leaves.GA
PHFaust: Krn your turn
krn: hey do you keep beardies are dart frogs rewarding to keep
and are they easy to breeed and lasstly do you have ot like tegus what
was your first herp
Patrick_nr: no, I no longer keep beardies. I kept and bred beardies
back in teh mid nineties. My first herps kept in my childhood...I remember
a big speckled kingsnake, and a melanistic southern hognose in particular.GA
amazinglyricist: ?
LonsumGeorge_nr: ?
krn: thanks pat
krn: i apreciate it
Patrick_nr: No problem!
Longshanks_nr: ?
PHFaust: GRRR Jeff B your turn
jeffb: Patrick are many frogs till being imported?
jeffb: still
palex134: ?
Patrick_nr: Right now there are only two species of dart frogs
being regularly imported, both from Panama...they are d. auratus and
d. pumilio. Over the past few years it has become harder and harder
to import frogs, due to Us fish and wildlife among other reasons. GA
PHFaust: Geckoguy your turn
PHFlame: ?
LeoGeoGuy: ?
mwilson_nr: ?
PHFaust: Gecko guy?
jake_nr: ?
PHFaust: OK Enchanted your turn
EnchantedForest: hi patrick!
Patrick_nr: Hi!
EnchantedForest: I was just wondering about the different feeder
insects you use
EnchantedForest: as well as a pumilio question
Patrick_nr: Only two here, crickets, and fruit fliesGA
EnchantedForest: ok, about your baby pumilio
Patrick_nr: Ok?
EnchantedForest: do you pull them when you find them, or leave
them in with the parents for a little while?
EnchantedForest: (there has been talk that froglets left with
the parents do better>)
Patrick_nr: No, I pull them!
BigR420: "?"
EnchantedForest: ok, thanks :) hope you'll be at IAD
PHFaust: Longshanks your turn
Longshanks_nr: Have you ever been into anything other than frogs,
"snakes" ? I love Kingsnakes so I was wondering if you have
had any.
Patrick_nr: Yes, I have done every thing from snakes to lizards.
Mostly lizards. I got out of snakes a few years GA
PHFaust: Absolute Rae your turn
AbsoluteRae: Thanks so much for coming tonight. How can you tell
a healthy frog (as in when buying from a breeder)? What sort of health
problems should you watch out for in captivity?
Longshanks_nr: thanks
thekidgecko: ?
JonnyAlbino: ?
Patrick_nr: Hi Rae, if you are buying a frog that you can look
at, at a show or something, then just look for good weight and size.
If buying over the internet, you have to go on reputation I guess. One
key is to get well started frogs. Many times frogs are sold as three
to six week old froglets and these have a much higher mortality rate
than three month old or so frogs.....GA
PHFaust: LeoGeo your turn
palex134: ?
LeoGeoGuy: are poison dart frogs poisoness in captivity?
LeoGeoGuy: if they arent, why not?
Patrick_nr: No, dart frogs make their poison from things in their
diet in the wild. So far no one has figured out how to make poison dart
frogs poisonous in captivity. GA
PHFaust: Palex your turn
palex134: hey pat, would you considier D. auratus a good starter
frog? Do you have good sucsess breeding them and selling them? Would
they be a good frog to begin with and start a breeding project. I am
looking for a frog that will sell. Are they easy to house and breed
the D. auratus?
savannah_king: ?
MarkPulawski: ?
Patrick_nr: Absolutely, auratus are perhaps the best starter
frog. They are usually easily sold to pet stores and other beginners
at shows. Of course they dont sell for much, this is one reason they
are good beginner frogs,makes them easy to sell. Great beginner frog.
GA
PHFaust: laws
palex134: thanks pat
palex134: ?
Laws-Yes: what is the name for the fused vertabrea that occurs
in all frogs that make them visually identifable and unmistakeble from
other animals?
Patrick_nr: Just a suggestion, when you post your ? then write
your question and have it ready for submission when you are called on!
BigR420: ?
Patrick_nr: Sorry Laws, but I am not sure. GA
LonsumGeorge_nr: ?
PHFaust: Crocman
Crocman2020: whats your favorite dart frog species and why?
MarkPulawski: Pat do you feel F2 and F3 generation Pumilio are
more difficult to breed or less productive than WC.
Laws-Yes: sorry i got the answer patrick its coccyx
LeoGeoGuy: sorry to interupt but to answer law-yes question,
it is called the coccyx
Patrick_nr: Crocman, my favorite is d. pumilio. most forms are
very bold, active and colorful. Their small size is an odded turn on
for me! GA
Crocman2020: thanks
PHFaust: Rocky your turn
rockybalboa_nr: Hi patrick i am canadian,do you know of any good
breeders of dart frogs in canada,and what is the best cage setup for
them,temps,humidity,plants,etc?Thankyou, its really cool for you to
come visit tonight.
Patrick_nr: Laws, I have a coccyx, and its fused as well....its
my tailbone right?
palex134: ?
Laws-Yes: yes it is
Patrick_nr: Well rocky, there are a few breeders in Canada, Mark
Pepper comes to mind. Check the KS arrow frog forum for more on that....Cage
set up shoudl be very humid....too much to go into here, check my site,
and read up on themGA
rockybalboa_nr: thankyou
LonsumGeorge_nr: ?
PHFaust: Lonsum finally your turn!
LonsumGeorge_nr: yay ! what is the rarest dart frog known and
what is the number ?
Patrick_nr: I have no idea. In captivity, or in the wild? Tehre
are many dart frog species which are not in captivity at all. GA
LonsumGeorge_nr: out in the field is what i meant , sorry
Patrick_nr: Well thats not that well documented, I think there
are a lot of fairly rare species in the wild. Ones we know that are
rare include some central american species like speciocis
rockybalboa_nr: ?
LonsumGeorge_nr: do you number the numbers found ?
Patrick_nr: no idea ga
PHFaust: Amazingly your turn
LonsumGeorge_nr: k thanks
amazinglyricist: What in your opinion is the best beginner dart
frog, what was your first dart frog, and how similar do you feel they
are to mantellas? Also how big do you think the dart frog hobby will
be in 5 years? It's already grown so much in the last few, and do you
see it expanding into big chain pet stores where many animals are not
properly cared for on a large scale?
JonnyAlbino: ?
PHFaust: Gang, just wanted to let everyone know Queue is closed...
we have about 5 or so first time questions, so if you have already asked
a question of patrick, I will be skipping you.
Patrick_nr: Well my first dart frog was the tricolor dart frog.
Very cool little frogs, great behavior. I am not that familiar with
mantellas but they are obviously similar. I dont think the dart frogs
will get into the larger pets stores. They are too "perishable"
for these stores, in my opiiion. I do see it growing, as you say its
grown a lot over teh past few years,a nd will continue to. I think it
will stay with breeders, and specialty pet stores though....ga
PHFaust: Mwilson your turn
mwilson_nr: I recieved some of the Kent RO right for my misting
system,how much do I add to the reservoir or should I say to what GH
works best to keep the misting heads from clogging?
Patrick_nr: Hi Mark, I am not sure. I sat down with the bottle,
and figured out how much to add to my reservior, then marked it on a
cup, which I keep with the bottle. My reservoir is a 50 gallon drum,
and th quantity is about 150ml as I recall. I doubt you will have problems
with hardness clogging the nozzles though, they are plastic and I dont
think the mineral will precipitate on it....ga
mwilson_nr: ok thanks
PHFaust: Jake your turn
jake_nr: which in your opinion are more fascinating D.tinctorius
or D.imitator? Which is the easiest to take care of? Which is more active
and bolder?
Patrick_nr: Well the imitators have held my interest longer.
Tincs are very cool, but in the long run they are limited to the floor
of the tank, for the most part, and they dont do as many cool things
as the imitators do. On the other hand they are out and about much more.
GA
PHFaust: Big R your turn
Patrick_nr: The tincs are out and about more, I should clarify!
GA
jake_nr: thanks
BigR420: Recently my azureus pair laid eggs in the axils of a
brom. Many of the eggs have slid down deep into the axil. The eggs are
developing, but they have always laid in the hut for me before so I
am at a loss as to what to do. Is it best to let them develop, then
move them when they erupt from the gel, or attempt to move them now?
They were laid about week ago. Thanks!
Patrick_nr: Well, you can leave them, or you can get a plastic
spoon and dig them out. I might let them develop till they are almost
ready to erupt and then dig them out with the spoon. Eggs are pretty
durable, dont sweat it too much. I would definitely not let them hatch
in the tank if I could help it! GA
PHFaust: Thekidgecko your turn
thekidgecko: I have always been well........dart frog challenged
to say the least. I killed my first two g & b aruatus faster than
greased lighting (2 weeks) What do oyu think is the hardiest frog with
best range temp and humidity tolerance ( not nessicarily to breed cuz
i can coax most anything to breed as long as its healthy lol I've been
thinking a luec or tinctorius would be best
thekidgecko: i live in texas so there are some weird extremes
were i live
Patrick_nr: If you are going to try again, I woudl go with the
leucs or the auratus again, tincs are a bit harder. Were your auratus
healthy well started captive breds? GA
thekidgecko: yes
PHFaust: MarkPulawski your turn
MarkPulawski: Sorry ? posted earlier (new to forum) My take on
biggest WC Citronella, Terribilis and Siverstonei Pat please comment
on F2 &3 Pumilio production
Patrick_nr: And you kept them in the small container like I recommend?
A lot of people get big tanks (even a ten gallon is a big tank to a
babay dart frog) and then put little frogs right in it. Check out my
care sheet on juvenile dart frogs, it has a lot of info on young frogs.
GA
pac-man: hi
Patrick_nr: Hi Mark, wild caught pumilio often blow out lots
of babies for a year or so, (if you consider fifteen or so babies in
a year a lot). Many including myself have found the production from
captive bred pumilio to often be less, especialy in teh first year or
two. I have been getting consistently good production from teh yellow
and red bastis, cb, but many other forms of pumilio seem much more challenging.
GA
PHFlame: Patrick, on behalf of all of us at kingsnake.com, thank
you so much for being our guest tonight! Please stay with us for our
next chat, when we welcome Darrell Senneke of the World Chelonian Trust
and Turtle Survival Alliance. Please also join us tomorrow night at
9 PM Eastern, when we'll welcome Jessi Clark-White of AfricanServal.com,
discussing "Why Exotic Pets Should Not Be Banned," and at
10 PM Eastern, Bill Love on Herp Photography!
also... Lizardkeepers.com | AprilFirstBioEngineering.com
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