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PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff B, pethobbyist.com and myself, We are please to welcome Jen P DVM as our guest this evening.

PHFaust: Dr. Jennifer Periat graduated from MSU (DVM and BS in zoology). Having grown up owning a variety of pets and being quite active in 4-H, she knew she wanted to be a veterinarian from a young age. Dr. Periat enjoys all types of animals and shares her home with many. Dr. Periat is still usually surrounded by animals, spending a lot of time doing public education about the care and conservation of exotic species, taking classes with her dogs and doing rescue work. She has been a very active member of the Michigan Society of Herpetologists, and now serves on the Board of Directors and as secretary.

PHFaust: Jen can answer questions on most any animal, but has a special spot for Exotics of all sorts

fireladie: What is your most exotic animal that you have ever treated?

JenPDVM: I've done a splenectomy on a lion:)

fireladie: Oh wow!

JenPDVM: 14 yrs old, had lymphoma, and we gave him another 2 good years of life! (i was a student at the time, but was the only student that got to scrub in :)

MaryNY: wow

Chiappone: neat

fireladie: Thats great!

JenPDVM: Also worked with a tiger, wallaby, some really big freakin herps.

PHCatBytes: Was that at msu, jen?

JenPDVM: And the first time I ever drew blood was on a hyena in africa:)

JenPDVM: Yeah, that was at msu, at the potter park zoo.

RiseAbove: What are some of the most common problems you get when people bring snakes in to you?

JenPDVM: Respiratory problems would be number 1, generally because they aren't humid enough or not kept warm enough.

JenPDVM: Sadly we also see a lot of bite injuries from prey, mites, and balls that won't eat ;)

JenPDVM: I guess not eating would be the number 1 problem why they come in...but it's usually because of resp infection, etc.

fireladie: What is your opinion on the lack of rabies vaccines for exotic pets, such as skunks. Do you think it would be harmful or benifical to develope a vaccine for exotic pets?

JenPDVM: Well, most of the exotic mammals I see (rabbits, small mammals) aren't really suseptible to rabies...but ferrets weren't legalized in MI until they had a rabies vaccine, maybe that is what it would take for the skunk to be legal.

JenPDVM: I think it would be beneficial, but I am not sure if funding would be available to do all the proper testing

PHCatBytes: Skunks aren't legal in MI?

JenPDVM: Since rabies is zoonotic, they are pretty picky on the vaccines.

JenPDVM: Nope

fireladie: I dont think there is much funding :(

JenPDVM: Well, ok you can HAVE one, but only if you get it from a in state breeder. And there aren't any that I know of.

fireladie: Skunks are not legal in many places

Chiappone: I recently found out one of my lovebirds has a heart murmer, I was just wondering if you knew if this was usually a big issue for the little guys or is it more like with everything else it may or may not ever become an issue.

JenPDVM: Is it a black masked?

Chiappone: No, peachface.

JenPDVM: We see the most heart problems in the black masked for some reasons...but sadly we found out usually on necropsy because they show no signs :(

JenPDVM: A heart murmur in a bird could potentially cause a problem, has an xray been done?

Chiappone: she's healthy as can be with everything else, no x-ray has been done yet since it hasnt been posing a problem, my vet just happened to hear it while they were in for their well check up this week. I didnt know how common it was for a lovebird

JenPDVM: gotcha. I would maybe recommend an xray, just to make sure the heart is not enlarged, or that the greater vessels aren't calcified. We do see heart disease in love birds, more in amazons though. If no signs and looks normal on xray, i would just keep up with your normal checkups and hopefully it won't cause a problem.

Chiappone: I will be sure to call her regular vet and see about getting that set up sometime. Thank you very much!

fireladie: Im not expert, but I know there has been considerable love bird hybridization to creat new mutations, if this is the case, your bird may have the Black masked genes to make it susceptiable to heart murmer.

JenPDVM: If xray is abnormal, we do have some good supplements and drugs that can help, even if no signs yet.

PHCatBytes: oops, sorry if i stepped on your wing, doc jen!

Chiappone: It's not a hybrid, i have the paperwork on her lineage that goes quite a few generations back, its all peachface :)

JenPDVM: True, though it's just more common in the black masked, the last heart disease lovey I had was a peachface though and no problem!

JenPDVM: Cool to have paperwork!

Chiappone: Yeah it's always nice to know what you're getting

JenPDVM: Which is so often NOT the case in exotics. ga :)

JenPDVM: Oh, btw the peach face is doing fine currently:)

RiseAbove: I wish my sister was here to ask questions, but what was the hardest thing you had to do in vet school, like was there a really hard test or hard class?

JenPDVM: Well, boards were not fun :)

JenPDVM: we take those 4th year and you can't get licensed if you don't pass.

JenPDVM: MSU does 2.5 yrs of class and 1.5 of clinicals (some schools only do a year)

JenPDVM: Classwork was hardest I think, because of the constant studying...I spent more time at school during clinics (18 hr days sometimes) but i was having fun most of time, learning a TON

JenPDVM:

RiseAbove: Yeah, she is too busy studying to walk her dogs. I walk um :0

JenPDVM: nice of you:)

RiseAbove: err run

RiseAbove: lol

RiseAbove: border collie

JenPDVM: hehe true enough then:)

PHCatBytes: Is it true that it's mean to have snakes in the same household as cats, because cats are their natural predators?

JenPDVM: I dont think so.

JenPDVM: People have cats and birds...

PHFaust: Lord I hope not!

JenPDVM: I have cats and rats lol

PHCatBytes: I've thought about having cornsnakes, but one of our other Chat-Week guests thinks it is!

RiseAbove: 2 cats 2 snakes here..

JenPDVM: I think it would be mean if you let the cat stalk the rat...but one of my snakes could eat the cat... :)

fireladie: I was just wondering your position on the ownership of exotic pets, atleast the ones that are not considered dangerous? And why do you think so many vets are reluctant to treat exotics?

Chiappone: I have 2 cats and a snake, and my birds....

JenPDVM: Ownership...well since I have uh, a lot of exotics I am pro-ownership:) good question since a lot of places are trying to pass laws. I think it's like any other pet , if people are responsible about it, it's fine.

fireladie: I am aquiring several animals to use in educational programs, and it has been difficult to find an exotic vet.

fireladie: Oh I know, it is a constant battle against AR and legislation that is ignorant of animals

JenPDVM: For the more dangerous guys, i am in favor of permitting rather than banning.

JenPDVM: As far as vets not wanting to treat, MOST vet schools don't have huge exotics program.

fireladie: Yay for Jen the vet! lol

JenPDVM: It's hard enough to know so much about cats and dogs...(human docs only do one species)! so it's a usually a lot more training and such to be good at exotics.

fireladie: So they lack the education to treat them than opposed to not wanting to treat them?

JenPDVM: I chose rotations and stuff to focus on it, did my presentations on them and own a bunch to learn husbandry.

JenPDVM: I think so..most of my vet friends are reluctant to treat because they don't feel comfortable doing so.

RiseAbove: Can you list all of the animals you have?

JenPDVM: lol ok

JenPDVM: 2 cats 2 dogs 2 guinea pigs 4 rats 1 short tailed possom

JenPDVM: thats the mammals

JenPDVM: A tank of fish, and herps i'm just gonna list species: beardies, chuckwallas, frilled dragon, waxy monkey frog

RiseAbove: nice

JenPDVM: 3 species of uromastyx

JenPDVM: a blue tongue skink, a boa, a king snake, corn snake sand boa

JenPDVM: dumerils boa

JenPDVM: hermanns torts box turtle yellow foot tort

JenPDVM: rhino ig:)

RiseAbove: nice

RiseAbove: cyclura :)

JenPDVM: that might be it

JenPDVM: oh wait

JenPDVM: lol duh forgot a whole room!

JenPDVM: a BUNCH of crested geckos

RiseAbove: lol

JenPDVM: gargoyle geckos, new caldonian giant geckos, leaf tail (3 species), colorado river toad, tokays, an anole LOL, tomato frogs, chahoua geckos, and a few others i co-own but live at friends house

RiseAbove: quite a collection

JenPDVM: If no one has any questions, I have a funny story how I got the anole.

JenPDVM: yeah, it's very educational:) (that is my excuse)

PHCatBytes: tell, tell!

fireladie: yes!

JenPDVM: Ok, a guy brings in a little brown anole in a jar, with a broken leg. H e was at funeral! and it jumped out of a flower arrangement and onto his chest!

JenPDVM: The guy brought it in for ID and to find out care...when he found out proper care (lights and all) he decided he didn't want him, so i took him home:)

fireladie: awwww lucky lizard

PHCatBytes: that's really sweet that he brought it into the vet's!

JenPDVM: thanks, yeah

RiseAbove: You wouldnt think of someone bringing an anole to the vet. lol

JenPDVM: You would be surprised what we see:)

fireladie: Do you know much about coatis? If so what are some common health issues to look out for? Would it be simmilar to raccoons?

JenPDVM: I have not worked much with them, but yes as far as i know similar to coons cept coatis are diurnal. so I would thnk diet would be the hard part (balanced that is).

fireladie: Oh okay, they are going to be an educational animal... and I know how much diet is the key for any exotic.

JenPDVM: I think they may be more insectivorish than coons.

RiseAbove: Well this is kind of long, so I'll type it out in sentences.

PHCatBytes: riseabove, your turn!

RiseAbove: lol

RiseAbove: can i go catbytes?

fireladie: haha

PHCatBytes: hee hee

RiseAbove: lol

RiseAbove: ok

RiseAbove: It's called: ferret vs fennec

PHCatBytes: Give me a chance!

RiseAbove: My friend is looking for a playful little exxotic, and he thinks he narrowed it down to a ferret or a fennec fox. Fennecs are obviously 10 times as expensive, but whats cooler than a fox as a pet?

RiseAbove: He's worried about the reputaion for ferrets regarding the smell, sure, they are mustelids, but is most of the smell the owners fault?

garf_nr: they reak

RiseAbove: Are they really bad enough to convince someone out of getting one?

JenPDVM: Fennecs are cool, though not as "domesticated" as ferrets. Ferrets generally have their musk glands removed but do have a certain smell. I'd be more concerned with all the health problems ferrets get;)

RiseAbove: Like what?

JenPDVM: Though with fennecs, may be harder to find a vet, and not as much is known about them yet.

JenPDVM: Ferrets get much cancer and such. (insulinomas, lymphomas, and a lot of adrenal disease, IBD etc)

RiseAbove: Ok, so the smell really isn't that bad?

JenPDVM: some are worse than others

JenPDVM: They do have an odor for sure.

PHCatBytes: lizzee, your question?

lizzee: Okay, I lost my little black headed caique boy, tank, today. Am still pretty puffy and hysterical, I'll try to be rational... can stress, extreme stress, kill a young bhc a full day after the event and in the interim he seems utterly fine?

JenPDVM: I am very sorry for your loss! And yes, it can, what happened?

lizzee: thanks, sniff...

lizzee: Yesterday, he almost fully hung himself. My daughter found him at the last second. He seemed a little off, took him to the vet, she said he was fine, and he WAS. I left him and olive, the other bhc today at 1:45, and two hours later he was curled up in his sleepy hut, and gone...but was utterly himself two hours prior when I was home for lunch. they were running all over me and each other.

JenPDVM: lizzee, what happend to Tank?

JenPDVM: oh so sad:(

fireladie: awwwww :(

JenPDVM: Unfortunately, birds (and most exotics) are prey species and they are very very good at hiding stress

JenPDVM: It is possible that something underlying was going on, but he was likely fine when you took him to the vet :(

lizzee: I know, but that well? No neck lacerations, eating and drinking fine, playing.....was it really just the stress?

JenPDVM: It COULD be, he could have had an underlying heart condition or something like that.

lizzee: you think i should have a necropsy done? It kills me to think about it.....

JenPDVM: USUALLY though they are shocky after, so it there is a chance that it could have been unrelated

JenPDVM: Anecropsy is a personal decision, and sometimes nothing is found...(especially on just a gross necropsy) but it may put your mind at ease. At any rate I do not think it is anything you did or didn't do, or your vet.

JenPDVM: Not that that makes you feel much better :(

skinks4me: Hey jen this may be a totally stupid question, but you never know, are you a vet, and if so do you work with reptiles at all?

lizzee: okay. thanks for the info. i really really miss him. olive's sleeping on my sternum right now. i'm scared to leave her for the night in her cage!

JenPDVM: The most common reasons for suddent deaths like that in birds are heart disease, trauma, stress, and inhalant toxicosis.

JenPDVM: understandable :(

JenPDVM: I am a vet and do work with herps :)

fireladie: To my limited knowledge, fennecs are like ferrets on speed, they need ample supervised play time, and are destructive like ferrets are. Fennecs dont have a difficult dietary requirement, and there poo doesn't really smell. They both can be litter trained, and both love small toys. The biggest problem with fennecs is that they get moody, and may "attack" someone they have never met, or jump at a person for instance if they have food and try to take it away.

JenPDVM: lol true, though i have seen some awful tempermental ferrets ;)

fireladie: and here is the question.... how contagious is the Hepatitis that many old world monkeys carry? Is it a huge risk to human care givers?

RiseAbove: nice comment fire!

JenPDVM: it is pretty contagious, though not QUITE as much of a worry as TB

fireladie: hehe, thanks :)

JenPDVM: We don't see monkeys because of the zoonotic potential.

fireladie: So, careful precautions, and then what can be done to minimize the risk?

JenPDVM: With proper precautions though, most caregivers are ok.

fireladie: Thanks.

skinks4me: Ok, i have a 3-4 week old baby beardie

fireladie: Oh... are new world monkeys susceptable to hepatitis?

skinks4me: He has whats seems to be a birth defect I suppose, in the fact that his neck seems to be twisted, he has a hard time with food but does get around and does eat. What are his chances and how can i make it easier for him to get his food down?

JenPDVM: Has his neck always been that way?

skinks4me: Since hatching yes. I am not exactly sure how much a baby beardie should eat in a day, I just know he is a slow eater.

JenPDVM: Baby beardies are eating machines lol

skinks4me: He has to really work to get it down.

JenPDVM: Is he by himself and what are you feeding?

skinks4me: Well he has had six smalls in with him since this afternoon and has only had maybe two. He is by himself. Small crix dusted. Offering greens.

JenPDVM: If he can eat now, he has a decent chance, may not be "normal."

JenPDVM: You can offer small silk worms if you can get them small enough, phoenix worms

skinks4me: Yeah he eats just not the ''reccomended'' amounts

skinks4me: Oh and do babyies play possum?

JenPDVM: Well, he may have other issues as well...you could supplement feed.

skinks4me: How would i do that?

JenPDVM: Make sure he has good UVB, push the greens, you could mush up pellets and syringe feed.

skinks4me: ok uvb is 5.0

JenPDVM: Play possum how?

skinks4me: What type of syringe?

skinks4me: Well he goes stiff and closes his eyes rather than trying to get away. It's very weird - he just goes very still

JenPDVM: A feeding one, one with no needle. it's possible also that it could be viral, etc. hard to say without seeing. Some herps will shut their eyes 'if i can't see you, you can't see me...'

skinks4me: I am still learning so i was curious.....he will just sit.....

skinks4me: Thank you

JenPDVM: Welcome. Iwould get him in to a vet though, make sure there isn't anything else you can do for him

skinks4me: ok

fireladie: Oh, it was about new world monkeys.

JenPDVM: Oh yeah

fireladie: What possible zoonotic disease to they posess?

JenPDVM: Yes they can get it, Ithink hep A

JenPDVM: TB

fireladie: okay

JenPDVM: probably others;)

fireladie: Thanks for a great chat tonight :)

RiseAbove: Indeed

PHFaust: On behalf of Pethobbyist.com, Jeff B, and myself, I want to take a moment to thank Dr. Jen Periat for being part of our chat week. Jen, thanks for taking the time out to chat with us on Exotic Health.

RiseAbove: It was a fast hour

JenPDVM: Welcome, it was fun! You guys asked good questions.