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kingsnake.com
Adam Britton
Crocodilians
March 5, 2005
PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us
at kingsnake.com, I'm very pleased to welcome Adam Britton to the
finale of our Seventh Annual Chat Week.
Adam's long-standing interest and research on crocodilians has provided
many adventures in the wilds of northern Australia, many of which
feature in the numerous documentaries Adam has appeared in over the
past 8 years. Adam's work specialises in crocodilian research, and
finding conservation solutions that actually work for both people
and wildlife. Adam will be talking about crocodilians in general,
forthcoming fieldwork for 2005 (volunteers are welcome!) and keeping
crocodilians in captivity - the subject of a major book on the subject
that he is co-authoring.
Thank you so much for joining us, Adam, and welcome!
PHFlame: Thank you for coming to the special guest chat this
evening. If you have a question for our special guests, please type
? in the room and you will be added to the queue. You WILL be called
on in the order of ? received. Please do not type openly in the chat
room.
LeoGeoGuy: ?
Adam Britton: Thanks - hi everyone
PHFaust: Shogun your first!
shogunatereptile: Thanks for answering our questions. I was
wondering if there are any research assistant opportunities with you
for over this summer. It'd be a dream come true for something like
that
Adam Britton: Yes there are. You may have heard of the project
looking at how cane toads affect freshwater crocodiles and sand goannas
- well, this year (Aug-Oct) we're doing a lot of fieldwork and there's
plenty of room for volunteers
Adam Britton: You need to write me if you're interested - abritton@crocodilian.com
shogunatereptile: What's the age limit?
Adam Britton: you must like getting wet, like working 24 hours
straight, like mozzies and flies up your nose, and like bad cooking!
Adam Britton: GA
shogunatereptile: Hehe, thanks!
PHFaust: Jeff Lemm your turn
Jeff Lemm: Hi Adam. Just wondering when you were coming back
to SD so I can return your favor (and show you better ways of catching
wild herps! lol). Seriously, any antibiotics in the works? Any dead
salties from toads yet?
Adam Britton: Age limit - hard to say, but we've had a 14 year
old before
Adam Britton: I'll be in Florida in May for a croc course we
do each year, so may drop by in CA...
Adam Britton: Antibiotic research still ongoing - Mark Merchant
of Louisiana is doing some great work, and we're going to link up
with his lab this summer...
Adam Britton: plenty of spam mail advertising dodgy products
from our work though - very annoying!...
Maliyum: ?
Adam Britton: Going next week to look for dead crocs. Plenty
of reports, just not from our study area yet
Adam Britton: GA
PHFlame: ?
Jeff Lemm: Yeah, I was thinking of going by the croc course
with Hudson. I'll email you about killing toads with you, cya
PHFaust: Juuniper your turn
shogunatereptile: ?
juuniper77: hey adam! it's jen periat:) how are things? and
how is the radio tracking going? and do you need a vet yet? lol what
part of FL in may?
goini04: ?
Adam Britton: Hi Jen - we're getting a big project covering
Kakadu NP and our study areas looking at saltwater crocodiles that
move into freshwater areas. This will mainly be satellite tracking,
but also some radiotracking. We need to find where these potentially
"problem" crocs are coming from...
PHFaust: No jen, you are moving to WI for me.... stop asking
if you can move elsewhere... ;)
Adam Britton: Our crocs don't need vets, but our lions occasionally
do! As for FL, I'll be in St Augustine.
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Leogeoguy your turn
juuniper77: but this would be with ADAM. i've done lion surgery.
LeoGeoGuy: hey, do you feel that the crocodile should have
won on that show on animal planet where they compare two animals and
see who wins. it was between the nile croc and a male lion.
juuniper77: i'll be in ft lauderdale the end of may
juuniper77: thanks adam.:)
Adam Britton: leo - the crocodile did win! The lion was dragged
into the water and killed. Remember on those shows we don't have that
much control over the content. There are several contests where science
went out the window in favor of other preferences. The gator should
have won against the black bear, for a start. But the aim was to show
a little bit of science and behavior and dress it up a bit.
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Mali your turn
Maliyum: How many times have you been bitten or snagged? If
any? And what got you intrested in reptiles?
Adam Britton: maliyum - I got my finger nailed by a gator 8
years ago because the guy I was working with ran off and left me!
Now I never work with people I don't trust...
Maliyum: wow
Adam Britton: got a couple of freshie bites while pulling them
from nets - both my fault because I wasn't following my own procedures.
;)
Maliyum: It takes alot of guts
Maliyum: and trust
Adam Britton: When you work with these animals all the time,
in captivity and the wild, you try to be as careful as possible. If
you get a nip on the finger, you hope your safety procedures prevented
you from losing the whole arm instead.
Adam Britton: Dinosaurs got me interested in reptiles when
I was young. Then I figured hey, why not work with living "dinosaurs"
instead. Much better than bones in a musuem for me.
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Flame
PHFlame: How dangerous is it working around the crocs all the
time? How aggressive are they if you are just walking around the shoreline?
And how smart are crocs in comparison with other reptiles?
PHFaust: ?
PHScales: ?
Adam Britton: Working with crocs is as dangerous as crossing
the road. If you shut your eyes, run while waving your arms and scream
then sure, you'll get hit by a car! If you're careful it's really
quite safe. Same with crocs - once you understand their behavior and
motivations, it gives you more condfidence, but you always have to
remember just what they can do if you get it wrong.
krn: ?
Adam Britton: Walking on the shore you're usually quite safe,
but it depends on where you are - there are (and have been) examples
where doing just that has gotten people attacked. But then people
have been hit on the head by falling bricks walking under a ladder
too - you have to walk a little further back and be safe.
PHFlame: What motivates crocs?
Adam Britton: Crocs are very smart, in that you can teach them
quite easily. They learn by association. if I ring a bell and give
them food, they'll learn quickly. Gatorland has taught some Cuban
crocs to response to their name and simple commands.
Adam Britton: Not that other reptiles aren't smart - they're
all underestimages
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Goini your turn
goini04: Hi Adam, I am researching crocodilian skeletal structure.
I have not been very successful in achieving this. Is this because
I have not been researching appropriately or because there is limited
information regarding this. If so, do you happen to have an idea as
to where I can find good and accurate information?
goini04: the main things that I have been able to find have
been about the skull
graceless_nr: ?
Adam Britton: Anatomy is almost a forgotten subject these days
- a real shame. There is some recent work that's been done, though.
Steve Salisbury (USyd) has been trying to get this project off the
ground. Ken Richardson (Perth) also has done some work - there's a
book out called "Crocodilians: Inside Out" but it only goes
so far
krn: ?
Adam Britton: Write me for their contact details
Adam Britton: GA
Meriday_Beth_nr: ?
goini04: thank you
PHFaust: Sidenote to goini
Adam Britton: my email is abritton@crocodilian.com btw
Adam Britton: GA
goini04: thank you
PHFaust: the chicago herp society is currently working on getting
a skeleton for display at their events...
PHFaust: Not sure where you are located, but if in midwest
may want to keep an eye on things
goini04: I have attempted to email you a couple of times, but
I figured yoiu were probably very busy
PHFaust: OK Moving on to shogun
goini04: columbus ohio
PHFaust: Goini, email me and I will see if skeleton will be
ready this year for reptile fest... I know it is in works...
goini04: PHFaust
shogunatereptile: Don't forget the Salty and the Great White!
I suppose the great white probably would have won, but the salty COULD"VE
won.. if the circumstance was right. Anywho, what are your views on
gators in captivity with just hobbyists?
goini04: thank you as well
Adam Britton: shogun - in that situation the salty didn't have
a chance, honestly. The animation should have lasted 5 seconds. But
put the shark in teh river with a bunch of Niles and yes, I agree...
Adam Britton: My view is that suitably equipped and motivated
people should not be prevented from keeping crocodilians under the
right conditions. The problem is deciding just who that is, and how
to police it.
Adam Britton: GA
shogunatereptile: Thanks!
PHFaust: PHFaust.... :)
I noticed you mentioned Dinosaurs as your inspriation.... Are you
familiar with supercroc?
shogunatereptile: ?
PHFaust: I assume you are... I work closely with CHS who has
helped get the knowledge out.... Just interested if you have actually
seen it yet
Adam Britton: Yes, Supercroc was based on Paul Sereno's work.
They filmed some of that with us. I think Paul overestimated the size
a litte, but thats television for you.
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: I have seen it in person... Even if the size is a
little off it makes T-rex look like a pussy cat if you ask me...
PHFaust: Scales...
PHScales: Adam, I operate VA Reptile Rescue, and routinely
hear of crocs and gators in rescue. It's getting really hard to find
an appropriate placement for them. The state here wants to euthanize
them all. Any ideas on what to do?
Adam Britton: It was an impressive beast for sure - but I've
never seen the actual mounted specimen. The guy who built it sent
plenty of photos though - I gave him advice on how to "skin"
it. Looks great.
Adam Britton: Scales - that's a tough one, and goes back to
my previou statement about how to ensure the right people are keeping
crocodilians. Far too lax in most states, but I'm against an outright
ban (just doesn't work, and makes monitoring harder).
Adam Britton: Frankly euth is a better option than not being
able to give the animal proper care and it suffering as a result.
It's a "lesser of two evils" solution unfortunatley.
PHScales: My thoughts, too... but just awfully sad to euth
so many...
PHFaust: Scales, get a good florida hookup, run a reptile blood
panel #3 which runs around $80, and transfer like i do
Adam Britton: agreed
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Graceless your up
graceless_nr: Out of all the species you have worked with in
your research, which do you find most facinating?
Adam Britton: The ones I know least about :) I'd love to do
more work with African Slender-snouted Crocodiles - they're so secretive
we know so little about them in the wild. To me that's a challenge
waiting to be taken up.
lizardman: ?
Adam Britton: But it's like choosing between your kids
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Krn
PHFaust: Krn your turn
Adam Britton: Ah, poetry
graceless_nr: ?
PHFaust: Krn gone... Meriday
Meriday_Beth_nr: I'm going to follow up on Jeff's question
and ask if there's a chance you'll be around here (Bay Area/LA/*Cambria*
=) ) again this year? (Also, Melissa says hi but canot be online tonight
in person.) --Of course, you knew I was going to ask you this... (:
...and sorry I can't stick around -- this user interface is terrible...
I'll call you when I've got time (another day) :) --Oh! Des &
Marianne both say hi too :)
krn: ph it wouldnt let me wright
Adam Britton: I'll try Meriday - there are a lot of people
to see in CA, but with the cost of airtravel these days I have to
travel quickly. Say hi to everyone for me.
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: krn will let you try ONE MORE TIME
Meriday_Beth_nr: will do :)
PHFaust: Krn your turn
PHFaust: I was supposed to pass Des' hello as well... thank
you mariday because I would have forgotten
krn: ok i went to clyde peeling reptile land to day and i saw
the croc noises any way what was your first herp
Meriday_Beth_nr: np :)
krn: do you have beardies
reptilefreak101: ?
Adam Britton: I saw Clyde's exhibit a few years ago too - nicely
done. My first herp was a Chinese Water Dragon. I rescued it from
a market in Hong Kong (where I used to live) - it was being sold as
bird food. Took it back to the UK, kept it alive for about three months
where it seemed to be getting better, and then it died for unknown
reasons. I was upset but it didn't put me off.
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Lizardman
Adam Britton: krn - sorry, no I don't have beardies. There
aren't any around Darwin - they're further south. All the wild ones
are really nasty, though! Totally unlike captive beardies.
Adam Britton: GA
lizardman: Has there been more research into the ability of
how crocodilians prevent infections?
krn: ok thanks
krn: ?
AstonPowders: ?
goini04: ?
Adam Britton: lizardman - we did a bit more work with Gill
Diamond, and I buiilt up a blood database for a number of species,
but then the money ran out! Currently Mark Merchant (LOuisiana) is
coming over later in the year to kick things off again, and link with
their gator work, so it's looking hopeful.
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Sidenote to lizard, I know some of my animals that
we transfer end up for a short period in the medical field for research
on thier blood before transfer to a sanctuary.
PHFaust: Graceless
Adam Britton: Since our initial work, though, there's been
huge interested in the field of croc immunology.
Adam Britton: graceless - well this could get sticky! They
are separate species, of course, but with very similar looking jaws.
But if you compare them closely you would conclude that false gharials
are "true crocodiles" (like Nile crocs) and true Gharials
are in fact unique unto themselves. However, genetic similarities
suggest that False and True Gharials are more closely related. It's
a real point of argument in the croc taxonomy world right now.
Adam Britton: They have different ranges in the wild, with
no overlap, so there's certainly no confusing them if you're in the
wild.
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: reptilefreak
lizardman: ?
reptilefreak101: what do you think is the best croc to start
out with that doesnt get to big like under 7 ft, what about camins
thanks
graceless_nr: TY
Rouen: ?
Adam Britton: reptilefreak - crocs are for advanced keepers,
so "starting out" is relative! Although baby crocs are easy
to keep, it's when they get big that it's a problem. Probably the
easiest to keep in captivity is an American Alligator, and I'm assuming
here than anyone keeping one would have the money and means to build
a large enough enclosure once it got bigger. Dwarf caimans (Paleosuchus)
are probably the easiest if space is limited. But none of these crocs
live less than 30-40 years if you do it right.
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Reptile, would just like to share, my largest animal
thru the rescue was a 7 foot gator... the length wasnt the issue...
At that size he weighed 176 lbs
PHFaust: Shogun yourturn
shogunatereptile: How many species of crocs and gators have
you worked with? And which ones?
reptilefreak101: thanks
Adam Britton: shogun - in captivity I've worked with all 23
species at one time or another. In the wild 7 or 8 (gators, American
crocs, Chinese alligator, New guinea, Saltie, Freshie, Nile for sure)
boxturtleman_nr: ?
Adam Britton: Never been to S. America yet to do any croc work.
One day.
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Aston your turn
AstonPowders: Do you live in the current place or any of the
places in the world because you are doing research there, or just
love to live different places in the world? also, do you keep any
reptiles including crocs or anything else?
shogunatereptile: Wow, and thanks!
shogunatereptile: ?
lizardman: ?
Adam Britton: Aston - I moved to Australia specifically to
work with the Asian croc species, specifically salties and freshies.
It was 100% a total change in lifestyle to work with crocs. I do not
regret it for a microsecond! (though I do miss "Pot Noodles"
from the UK).
Adam Britton: I just thought it was worthwhile and something
I wanted to do with my life for years, so I did it.
PHFaust: Goini
Adam Britton: GA
AstonPowders: lol, ok thanks a bunch
PHGinger: LOL ok I'll bite - what are pot noodles?
goini04: Speaking of captive crocodilians. Like snakes you
usually add the length + width and you get the total length of snake.
Is there a specific measurement that can be used to decide on an appropriate
size enclosure for a crocodilian?
Adam Britton: Aston - sorry, missed something - I used to keep
lots of reptiles, but since moving to Australia none. I work daily
with crocs and have plenty of reptiles living in the scrub around
my house (goannas mostly), plus geckos inside the house, so I don't
feel the need to keep one as a pet.
Adam Britton: GA
goini04: I would also like to knowwhat pot noodles are:)
Adam Britton: Pot Noodles - disgusting artificial noodles made
by Golden Wonder. I love them
goini04: lol
PHFaust: I think he is getting at caging size
AstonPowders: lol, thats fine, kool tho
PHFlame: like ramen noodles here in the US?
PHFaust: Lizardman your turn
lizardman: What's the status of the Chinese alligator these
days?
Adam Britton: goini - minimum enclosure size is hard to say,
because it varies a lot depending on the size of the croc, its habits,
etc. Generally I think 3 x total length is good, but you can get away
with less with different designs. Juveniles, though - they need more
than 3 x total length - more like 5 x tl.
Adam Britton: GA
Adam Britton: those are minimum length, btw, not "recommended"
goini04: thank you
PHFaust: Not sure if you saw it, but lizard was asking status
of chinese alligator.... Got a bit fast on the enter here
goini04: ?
jeffb: ?
Adam Britton: lizardman - the Chinese Alligator is getting
a lot more attention from teh Chinese Government. It's been elevated
to "highest priority" along with giant panda and peerdavid's
deer (though you won't see zoos fighting over them like they do with
pandas!). The current stage is rehabilitating areas for release of
captive-bred gators. Already some have been released with radiocollars
to see how they cope, and it's been successful. More in teh future.
Definitely MUCH more positive than it was, but still lots to be done
- we must not get complacent
Adam Britton: GA
PHFlame: Thank you for coming to chat this evening. Unfortunately,
there are already too many questions in the queue to answer in the
time available for the chat. Feel free to stay and listen, though.
Please do not type openly in the chat room.
PHFaust: Rouen
Rouen: hi Adam, could you please re-post the e-mail address
you gave out earlier in chat in regard to the volunteer work, thanks
Rouen: mines simple :)
PHFaust: you are a glutton for punishment arent you rouen?
Adam Britton: ok, my email is abritton@crocodilian.com - anyone
intersted in volunteer work on wild crocs write to me. I'll send details.
Aiming for this summer (Aug-Oct)
PHFaust: Lizard
Rouen: thanks
Adam Britton: Good, that means a simple answer!
PHFaust: Lizardman Going twice
lizardman: Don't have any now...
PHFaust: OK Goini your turn
goini04: is there any studies done on determining what makes
certain crocodilians aggressive
goini04: ?
goini04: or defensive I guess I should say....
goini04: mainly comparing Nile vs. Am. Gator
Adam Britton: goini - none that I'm aware of. I've been asked
this question since it came up in the Adam Sandler movie "The
Waterboy" but I've never heard of anyone suggesting that before.
There's no literature out there on it, and I'm not neurobiologist
so I'm not sure. From the viewpoint of a zoologist, though, aggression
is normally influenced by social and predatory needs. Alligators are
relatively free of potential predators (except when young) whereas
Niles have to be a lot more aggressive and defensive to survive. That's
a very simple answer!
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Shogun
shogunatereptile: You mentioned the Chinese Alligator. It's
my favorite crocadillian EVER. What was the experience like, dealing
with them in the wilderness? And, have you ever worked with Steve
Irwin during your time in Australia? (Sorry, had to ask, lol)
goini04: thank you
PHFlame: Thank you for coming to chat this evening. Unfortunately,
there are already too many questions in the queue to answer in the
time available for the chat. Feel free to stay and listen, though.
Please do not type openly in the chat room.
Adam Britton: Chinese alligators don't have much (or any) wilderness
left. They live in ponds which are bordered by farmland on all sides
- almost like drainage ditches. The breeding centres are impressive
(in Anhui for example) but not truly wild. They are remarkable creatures,
and their burrows are very complex...
Adam Britton: I've never worked with Steve Irwin, no. He does
his own thing, and doesn't get involved with Croc Specialist Group
conservation activities.
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: JeffB the big man your turn....
shogunatereptile: Thanks a ton!
lizardman: ?
jeffb: If I volunteer what job would you give me?
PHFaust: ROFL
shogunatereptile: Whoops...
PHGinger: a big shovel?
Adam Britton: jeffb - for you Jeff, probably cleaning croc
pens. ;)
goini04: lol
shogunatereptile: ::snicker::
AstonPowders: lol
Adam Britton: But we train all our volunteers to handle crocs
safely and work as a team
jeffb: I have experience with the shovel if you need it
Adam Britton: So really most volunteers will end up helping
to catch crocs, taking them out of nets, helping to handle and measure
them, releasing them, doing surveys, doing nesting surveys, watching
for goannas eating nests etc
Adam Britton: Thanks jeff I'll add you to the list. ;)
Adam Britton: GA
PHFaust: Well Adam, I really want to say thank you for coming
tonight... My interest in crocodillians has increased in the past
few years with rescue, but I must say I still regularly visit Wong's
site. It was a wonderful tribute to what can happen with care gone
wrong. Keep up the research, because I love you conservationists...
On Behalf of Jeff B., Pethobbyist, Kingsnake and myself I want to
thank you for coming this evening
PHFaust: And thanks to all the members who have been here day
in and out with us!
also... Lizardkeepers.com | AprilFirstBioEngineering.com
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