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kingsnake.com
Adam Britton
Crocodilians
March 5, 2005

PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at kingsnake.com, I'm very pleased to welcome Adam Britton to the finale of our Seventh Annual Chat Week.

Adam's long-standing interest and research on crocodilians has provided many adventures in the wilds of northern Australia, many of which feature in the numerous documentaries Adam has appeared in over the past 8 years. Adam's work specialises in crocodilian research, and finding conservation solutions that actually work for both people and wildlife. Adam will be talking about crocodilians in general, forthcoming fieldwork for 2005 (volunteers are welcome!) and keeping crocodilians in captivity - the subject of a major book on the subject that he is co-authoring.

Thank you so much for joining us, Adam, and welcome!

PHFlame: Thank you for coming to the special guest chat this evening. If you have a question for our special guests, please type ? in the room and you will be added to the queue. You WILL be called on in the order of ? received. Please do not type openly in the chat room.

LeoGeoGuy: ?

Adam Britton: Thanks - hi everyone

PHFaust: Shogun your first!

shogunatereptile: Thanks for answering our questions. I was wondering if there are any research assistant opportunities with you for over this summer. It'd be a dream come true for something like that

Adam Britton: Yes there are. You may have heard of the project looking at how cane toads affect freshwater crocodiles and sand goannas - well, this year (Aug-Oct) we're doing a lot of fieldwork and there's plenty of room for volunteers

Adam Britton: You need to write me if you're interested - abritton@crocodilian.com

shogunatereptile: What's the age limit?

Adam Britton: you must like getting wet, like working 24 hours straight, like mozzies and flies up your nose, and like bad cooking!

Adam Britton: GA

shogunatereptile: Hehe, thanks!

PHFaust: Jeff Lemm your turn

Jeff Lemm: Hi Adam. Just wondering when you were coming back to SD so I can return your favor (and show you better ways of catching wild herps! lol). Seriously, any antibiotics in the works? Any dead salties from toads yet?

Adam Britton: Age limit - hard to say, but we've had a 14 year old before

Adam Britton: I'll be in Florida in May for a croc course we do each year, so may drop by in CA...

Adam Britton: Antibiotic research still ongoing - Mark Merchant of Louisiana is doing some great work, and we're going to link up with his lab this summer...

Adam Britton: plenty of spam mail advertising dodgy products from our work though - very annoying!...

Maliyum: ?

Adam Britton: Going next week to look for dead crocs. Plenty of reports, just not from our study area yet

Adam Britton: GA

PHFlame: ?

Jeff Lemm: Yeah, I was thinking of going by the croc course with Hudson. I'll email you about killing toads with you, cya

PHFaust: Juuniper your turn

shogunatereptile: ?

juuniper77: hey adam! it's jen periat:) how are things? and how is the radio tracking going? and do you need a vet yet? lol what part of FL in may?

goini04: ?

Adam Britton: Hi Jen - we're getting a big project covering Kakadu NP and our study areas looking at saltwater crocodiles that move into freshwater areas. This will mainly be satellite tracking, but also some radiotracking. We need to find where these potentially "problem" crocs are coming from...

PHFaust: No jen, you are moving to WI for me.... stop asking if you can move elsewhere... ;)

Adam Britton: Our crocs don't need vets, but our lions occasionally do! As for FL, I'll be in St Augustine.

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Leogeoguy your turn

juuniper77: but this would be with ADAM. i've done lion surgery.

LeoGeoGuy: hey, do you feel that the crocodile should have won on that show on animal planet where they compare two animals and see who wins. it was between the nile croc and a male lion.

juuniper77: i'll be in ft lauderdale the end of may

juuniper77: thanks adam.:)

Adam Britton: leo - the crocodile did win! The lion was dragged into the water and killed. Remember on those shows we don't have that much control over the content. There are several contests where science went out the window in favor of other preferences. The gator should have won against the black bear, for a start. But the aim was to show a little bit of science and behavior and dress it up a bit.

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Mali your turn

Maliyum: How many times have you been bitten or snagged? If any? And what got you intrested in reptiles?

Adam Britton: maliyum - I got my finger nailed by a gator 8 years ago because the guy I was working with ran off and left me! Now I never work with people I don't trust...

Maliyum: wow

Adam Britton: got a couple of freshie bites while pulling them from nets - both my fault because I wasn't following my own procedures. ;)

Maliyum: It takes alot of guts

Maliyum: and trust

Adam Britton: When you work with these animals all the time, in captivity and the wild, you try to be as careful as possible. If you get a nip on the finger, you hope your safety procedures prevented you from losing the whole arm instead.

Adam Britton: Dinosaurs got me interested in reptiles when I was young. Then I figured hey, why not work with living "dinosaurs" instead. Much better than bones in a musuem for me.

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Flame

PHFlame: How dangerous is it working around the crocs all the time? How aggressive are they if you are just walking around the shoreline? And how smart are crocs in comparison with other reptiles?

PHFaust: ?

PHScales: ?

Adam Britton: Working with crocs is as dangerous as crossing the road. If you shut your eyes, run while waving your arms and scream then sure, you'll get hit by a car! If you're careful it's really quite safe. Same with crocs - once you understand their behavior and motivations, it gives you more condfidence, but you always have to remember just what they can do if you get it wrong.

krn: ?

Adam Britton: Walking on the shore you're usually quite safe, but it depends on where you are - there are (and have been) examples where doing just that has gotten people attacked. But then people have been hit on the head by falling bricks walking under a ladder too - you have to walk a little further back and be safe.

PHFlame: What motivates crocs?

Adam Britton: Crocs are very smart, in that you can teach them quite easily. They learn by association. if I ring a bell and give them food, they'll learn quickly. Gatorland has taught some Cuban crocs to response to their name and simple commands.

Adam Britton: Not that other reptiles aren't smart - they're all underestimages

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Goini your turn

goini04: Hi Adam, I am researching crocodilian skeletal structure. I have not been very successful in achieving this. Is this because I have not been researching appropriately or because there is limited information regarding this. If so, do you happen to have an idea as to where I can find good and accurate information?

goini04: the main things that I have been able to find have been about the skull

graceless_nr: ?

Adam Britton: Anatomy is almost a forgotten subject these days - a real shame. There is some recent work that's been done, though. Steve Salisbury (USyd) has been trying to get this project off the ground. Ken Richardson (Perth) also has done some work - there's a book out called "Crocodilians: Inside Out" but it only goes so far

krn: ?

Adam Britton: Write me for their contact details

Adam Britton: GA

Meriday_Beth_nr: ?

goini04: thank you

PHFaust: Sidenote to goini

Adam Britton: my email is abritton@crocodilian.com btw

Adam Britton: GA

goini04: thank you

PHFaust: the chicago herp society is currently working on getting a skeleton for display at their events...

PHFaust: Not sure where you are located, but if in midwest may want to keep an eye on things

goini04: I have attempted to email you a couple of times, but I figured yoiu were probably very busy

PHFaust: OK Moving on to shogun

goini04: columbus ohio

PHFaust: Goini, email me and I will see if skeleton will be ready this year for reptile fest... I know it is in works...

goini04: PHFaust

shogunatereptile: Don't forget the Salty and the Great White! I suppose the great white probably would have won, but the salty COULD"VE won.. if the circumstance was right. Anywho, what are your views on gators in captivity with just hobbyists?

goini04: thank you as well

Adam Britton: shogun - in that situation the salty didn't have a chance, honestly. The animation should have lasted 5 seconds. But put the shark in teh river with a bunch of Niles and yes, I agree...

Adam Britton: My view is that suitably equipped and motivated people should not be prevented from keeping crocodilians under the right conditions. The problem is deciding just who that is, and how to police it.

Adam Britton: GA

shogunatereptile: Thanks!

PHFaust: PHFaust.... :)

I noticed you mentioned Dinosaurs as your inspriation.... Are you familiar with supercroc?

shogunatereptile: ?

PHFaust: I assume you are... I work closely with CHS who has helped get the knowledge out.... Just interested if you have actually seen it yet

Adam Britton: Yes, Supercroc was based on Paul Sereno's work. They filmed some of that with us. I think Paul overestimated the size a litte, but thats television for you.

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: I have seen it in person... Even if the size is a little off it makes T-rex look like a pussy cat if you ask me...

PHFaust: Scales...

PHScales: Adam, I operate VA Reptile Rescue, and routinely hear of crocs and gators in rescue. It's getting really hard to find an appropriate placement for them. The state here wants to euthanize them all. Any ideas on what to do?

Adam Britton: It was an impressive beast for sure - but I've never seen the actual mounted specimen. The guy who built it sent plenty of photos though - I gave him advice on how to "skin" it. Looks great.

Adam Britton: Scales - that's a tough one, and goes back to my previou statement about how to ensure the right people are keeping crocodilians. Far too lax in most states, but I'm against an outright ban (just doesn't work, and makes monitoring harder).

Adam Britton: Frankly euth is a better option than not being able to give the animal proper care and it suffering as a result. It's a "lesser of two evils" solution unfortunatley.

PHScales: My thoughts, too... but just awfully sad to euth so many...

PHFaust: Scales, get a good florida hookup, run a reptile blood panel #3 which runs around $80, and transfer like i do

Adam Britton: agreed

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Graceless your up

graceless_nr: Out of all the species you have worked with in your research, which do you find most facinating?

Adam Britton: The ones I know least about :) I'd love to do more work with African Slender-snouted Crocodiles - they're so secretive we know so little about them in the wild. To me that's a challenge waiting to be taken up.

lizardman: ?

Adam Britton: But it's like choosing between your kids

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Krn

PHFaust: Krn your turn

Adam Britton: Ah, poetry

graceless_nr: ?

PHFaust: Krn gone... Meriday

Meriday_Beth_nr: I'm going to follow up on Jeff's question and ask if there's a chance you'll be around here (Bay Area/LA/*Cambria* =) ) again this year? (Also, Melissa says hi but canot be online tonight in person.) --Of course, you knew I was going to ask you this... (: ...and sorry I can't stick around -- this user interface is terrible... I'll call you when I've got time (another day) :) --Oh! Des & Marianne both say hi too :)

krn: ph it wouldnt let me wright

Adam Britton: I'll try Meriday - there are a lot of people to see in CA, but with the cost of airtravel these days I have to travel quickly. Say hi to everyone for me.

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: krn will let you try ONE MORE TIME

Meriday_Beth_nr: will do :)

PHFaust: Krn your turn

PHFaust: I was supposed to pass Des' hello as well... thank you mariday because I would have forgotten

krn: ok i went to clyde peeling reptile land to day and i saw the croc noises any way what was your first herp

Meriday_Beth_nr: np :)

krn: do you have beardies

reptilefreak101: ?

Adam Britton: I saw Clyde's exhibit a few years ago too - nicely done. My first herp was a Chinese Water Dragon. I rescued it from a market in Hong Kong (where I used to live) - it was being sold as bird food. Took it back to the UK, kept it alive for about three months where it seemed to be getting better, and then it died for unknown reasons. I was upset but it didn't put me off.

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Lizardman

Adam Britton: krn - sorry, no I don't have beardies. There aren't any around Darwin - they're further south. All the wild ones are really nasty, though! Totally unlike captive beardies.

Adam Britton: GA

lizardman: Has there been more research into the ability of how crocodilians prevent infections?

krn: ok thanks

krn: ?

AstonPowders: ?

goini04: ?

Adam Britton: lizardman - we did a bit more work with Gill Diamond, and I buiilt up a blood database for a number of species, but then the money ran out! Currently Mark Merchant (LOuisiana) is coming over later in the year to kick things off again, and link with their gator work, so it's looking hopeful.

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Sidenote to lizard, I know some of my animals that we transfer end up for a short period in the medical field for research on thier blood before transfer to a sanctuary.

PHFaust: Graceless

Adam Britton: Since our initial work, though, there's been huge interested in the field of croc immunology.

Adam Britton: graceless - well this could get sticky! They are separate species, of course, but with very similar looking jaws. But if you compare them closely you would conclude that false gharials are "true crocodiles" (like Nile crocs) and true Gharials are in fact unique unto themselves. However, genetic similarities suggest that False and True Gharials are more closely related. It's a real point of argument in the croc taxonomy world right now.

Adam Britton: They have different ranges in the wild, with no overlap, so there's certainly no confusing them if you're in the wild.

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: reptilefreak

lizardman: ?

reptilefreak101: what do you think is the best croc to start out with that doesnt get to big like under 7 ft, what about camins thanks

graceless_nr: TY

Rouen: ?

Adam Britton: reptilefreak - crocs are for advanced keepers, so "starting out" is relative! Although baby crocs are easy to keep, it's when they get big that it's a problem. Probably the easiest to keep in captivity is an American Alligator, and I'm assuming here than anyone keeping one would have the money and means to build a large enough enclosure once it got bigger. Dwarf caimans (Paleosuchus) are probably the easiest if space is limited. But none of these crocs live less than 30-40 years if you do it right.

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Reptile, would just like to share, my largest animal thru the rescue was a 7 foot gator... the length wasnt the issue... At that size he weighed 176 lbs

PHFaust: Shogun yourturn

shogunatereptile: How many species of crocs and gators have you worked with? And which ones?

reptilefreak101: thanks

Adam Britton: shogun - in captivity I've worked with all 23 species at one time or another. In the wild 7 or 8 (gators, American crocs, Chinese alligator, New guinea, Saltie, Freshie, Nile for sure)
boxturtleman_nr: ?

Adam Britton: Never been to S. America yet to do any croc work. One day.

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Aston your turn

AstonPowders: Do you live in the current place or any of the places in the world because you are doing research there, or just love to live different places in the world? also, do you keep any reptiles including crocs or anything else?

shogunatereptile: Wow, and thanks!

shogunatereptile: ?

lizardman: ?

Adam Britton: Aston - I moved to Australia specifically to work with the Asian croc species, specifically salties and freshies. It was 100% a total change in lifestyle to work with crocs. I do not regret it for a microsecond! (though I do miss "Pot Noodles" from the UK).

Adam Britton: I just thought it was worthwhile and something I wanted to do with my life for years, so I did it.

PHFaust: Goini

Adam Britton: GA

AstonPowders: lol, ok thanks a bunch

PHGinger: LOL ok I'll bite - what are pot noodles?

goini04: Speaking of captive crocodilians. Like snakes you usually add the length + width and you get the total length of snake. Is there a specific measurement that can be used to decide on an appropriate size enclosure for a crocodilian?

Adam Britton: Aston - sorry, missed something - I used to keep lots of reptiles, but since moving to Australia none. I work daily with crocs and have plenty of reptiles living in the scrub around my house (goannas mostly), plus geckos inside the house, so I don't feel the need to keep one as a pet.

Adam Britton: GA

goini04: I would also like to knowwhat pot noodles are:)

Adam Britton: Pot Noodles - disgusting artificial noodles made by Golden Wonder. I love them

goini04: lol

PHFaust: I think he is getting at caging size

AstonPowders: lol, thats fine, kool tho

PHFlame: like ramen noodles here in the US?

PHFaust: Lizardman your turn

lizardman: What's the status of the Chinese alligator these days?

Adam Britton: goini - minimum enclosure size is hard to say, because it varies a lot depending on the size of the croc, its habits, etc. Generally I think 3 x total length is good, but you can get away with less with different designs. Juveniles, though - they need more than 3 x total length - more like 5 x tl.

Adam Britton: GA

Adam Britton: those are minimum length, btw, not "recommended"

goini04: thank you

PHFaust: Not sure if you saw it, but lizard was asking status of chinese alligator.... Got a bit fast on the enter here

goini04: ?

jeffb: ?

Adam Britton: lizardman - the Chinese Alligator is getting a lot more attention from teh Chinese Government. It's been elevated to "highest priority" along with giant panda and peerdavid's deer (though you won't see zoos fighting over them like they do with pandas!). The current stage is rehabilitating areas for release of captive-bred gators. Already some have been released with radiocollars to see how they cope, and it's been successful. More in teh future. Definitely MUCH more positive than it was, but still lots to be done - we must not get complacent

Adam Britton: GA

PHFlame: Thank you for coming to chat this evening. Unfortunately, there are already too many questions in the queue to answer in the time available for the chat. Feel free to stay and listen, though. Please do not type openly in the chat room.

PHFaust: Rouen

Rouen: hi Adam, could you please re-post the e-mail address you gave out earlier in chat in regard to the volunteer work, thanks

Rouen: mines simple :)

PHFaust: you are a glutton for punishment arent you rouen?

Adam Britton: ok, my email is abritton@crocodilian.com - anyone intersted in volunteer work on wild crocs write to me. I'll send details. Aiming for this summer (Aug-Oct)

PHFaust: Lizard

Rouen: thanks

Adam Britton: Good, that means a simple answer!

PHFaust: Lizardman Going twice

lizardman: Don't have any now...

PHFaust: OK Goini your turn

goini04: is there any studies done on determining what makes certain crocodilians aggressive

goini04: ?

goini04: or defensive I guess I should say....

goini04: mainly comparing Nile vs. Am. Gator

Adam Britton: goini - none that I'm aware of. I've been asked this question since it came up in the Adam Sandler movie "The Waterboy" but I've never heard of anyone suggesting that before. There's no literature out there on it, and I'm not neurobiologist so I'm not sure. From the viewpoint of a zoologist, though, aggression is normally influenced by social and predatory needs. Alligators are relatively free of potential predators (except when young) whereas Niles have to be a lot more aggressive and defensive to survive. That's a very simple answer!

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Shogun

shogunatereptile: You mentioned the Chinese Alligator. It's my favorite crocadillian EVER. What was the experience like, dealing with them in the wilderness? And, have you ever worked with Steve Irwin during your time in Australia? (Sorry, had to ask, lol)

goini04: thank you

PHFlame: Thank you for coming to chat this evening. Unfortunately, there are already too many questions in the queue to answer in the time available for the chat. Feel free to stay and listen, though. Please do not type openly in the chat room.

Adam Britton: Chinese alligators don't have much (or any) wilderness left. They live in ponds which are bordered by farmland on all sides - almost like drainage ditches. The breeding centres are impressive (in Anhui for example) but not truly wild. They are remarkable creatures, and their burrows are very complex...

Adam Britton: I've never worked with Steve Irwin, no. He does his own thing, and doesn't get involved with Croc Specialist Group conservation activities.

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: JeffB the big man your turn....

shogunatereptile: Thanks a ton!

lizardman: ?

jeffb: If I volunteer what job would you give me?

PHFaust: ROFL

shogunatereptile: Whoops...

PHGinger: a big shovel?

Adam Britton: jeffb - for you Jeff, probably cleaning croc pens. ;)

goini04: lol

shogunatereptile: ::snicker::

AstonPowders: lol

Adam Britton: But we train all our volunteers to handle crocs safely and work as a team

jeffb: I have experience with the shovel if you need it

Adam Britton: So really most volunteers will end up helping to catch crocs, taking them out of nets, helping to handle and measure them, releasing them, doing surveys, doing nesting surveys, watching for goannas eating nests etc

Adam Britton: Thanks jeff I'll add you to the list. ;)

Adam Britton: GA

PHFaust: Well Adam, I really want to say thank you for coming tonight... My interest in crocodillians has increased in the past few years with rescue, but I must say I still regularly visit Wong's site. It was a wonderful tribute to what can happen with care gone wrong. Keep up the research, because I love you conservationists...

On Behalf of Jeff B., Pethobbyist, Kingsnake and myself I want to thank you for coming this evening

PHFaust: And thanks to all the members who have been here day in and out with us!