PHFaust: Good evening and on behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at kingsnake.com, thank you for joining us for our Eighth Annual Chat Week! PHFaust: Tonight we are pleased to welcome Jane Billette - Mid Michigan Reptile Rescue and Cindy Steinle - Small Scale Reptile Reptile Rescue for our rescue panel. They will be discussing How to avoid being a statisic. What you can do to prevent loosing your animals. PHFaust: Each of the ladies will offer a brief intro of themselves and the work their rescues have done before we begin. Thanks Jane and Cindy, and welcome! SmallScaleRescue: My Name is Cindy Steinle and I run Small Scale Reptile Rescue in Wisconsin. My rescue serves the state of WI and northern IL and works in Partnership with Mid-Michigan Reptile Rescue. I am a Board Member of the Chicago Herpetological society and they assist me with karge snake and crocodilian relocation. I am also a member of WI Dog and all other species rescue which is a self policing organization of Breed Rescues and a coalition of Shelters that cover the entire state of WI. I also am in the employ of a humane society here in WI as well as sitting on the Board of Specialty Pure Bred Cat Rescue and Chicagoland Bully Breed Rescue. I have been working in reptile rescue for 10 years now. Last year SSRR had over 80 animals pass through our doors. jiffypop: My name is Jane and I started doing reptile rescue back in 1996. I am a board member of the Michigan Society of Herpetologists, a member of the Chicago Herp Society and the International Iguana Society. My daughter and I work as a team to rescue, rehabilitate, socialize, and place all species of reptiles and some small furry exotics. We participate in as many educational exhibits as we can fit into our schedule. Reptile rescue has become more than just a hobby for us, it's a way of life. jiffypop: good evening folks SmallScaleRescue: We can give you a moment to read our novels... lironsamuels: hi jane and cindy, what are the most common reptiles you get? SmallScaleRescue: IGUANAS IGUANAS IGUANAS!!!! jiffypop: and lately boas, burms, savannahs, and sulcattas SmallScaleRescue: We see a lot of Green Iguanas. Savannah monitors, burms, boas, sulcattas. All things that are big as adults coastalherper: What is the most exotic reptile you've ever gotten? Also what was your favorite? Also what was the biggest? SmallScaleRescue: Most exotic was a Brazillian Rainbow Boa... Or I should say most unusual... jiffypop: For me I will have to say it was the 8 foot Croc monitor. It was a boarder rather than a rescue and I was quite glad to see it leave when it did. SmallScaleRescue: My Largest was a surrender of an american alligator named Big Al who was 7 feet 1 inch and 176 lbs... jiffypop: My favorite was a 6 foot Nile monitor named Damian who was a sweetheart of a Nile. GA SmallScaleRescue: My favorite was probably the similis that I have gotten in that always try to eat me coastalherper: similis? SmallScaleRescue: Spiny Tailed Iguanas coastalherper: ohh SmallScaleRescue: Very angry little kids coastalherper: lol jiffypop: not all of them!! SmallScaleRescue: ok most feline89: what would be the worst condition any of the reptiles have been in when you got them? coastalherper: thanks! SmallScaleRescue: Oy where to start jiffypop: really! jiffypop: as an example, we just took in an 11 year old iguana that is 26 inches SVL and weighs less than a pound jiffypop: make that 26 inches STL SmallScaleRescue: It could be the burm with an anal vent abcess that went from top to bottom. The boa that was 8 foot and weighed 3 lbs with a broken jaw that was shattered completely beyond repair and 14 rat bites... the green iguana that i picked up from an owner and it DIED before I even got it home SmallScaleRescue: The level of abuses put onto reptiles is insane. jiffypop: we also had an iguana that was used as a paint ball target. SmallScaleRescue: Lets put it this way, seeing a cigarette burn on a snake no longer disturbes me and seeing DECLAWED iguanas is fairly common place jiffypop: one pretty female iguana had a gangrenous tail that was so bad you could smell it a room away. SmallScaleRescue: I could go on... but lets just say these are some of my worst cases JungleDancer: I have multi part questions.. I'm trying to get an idea of how widespread reptile rescue needs are.... What percentage of iguana /reptile rescues are you able to successfully rehabilitate and rehome? How many new animals do you take in on an average month? How are you funded? SmallScaleRescue: Funding? SmallScaleRescue: Umm my paycheck jiffypop: what funding? JungleDancer: Exactly what I thought... done from own funds? SmallScaleRescue: Occasionally we get donations... We do things like pet fairs just like the dog and cat rescues do, but the thing is people are to some extent repulsed in those venues... SmallScaleRescue: we save the things that go bump in the night... JungleDancer: I think the need is there, I wish the public would be more open with funding to help jiffypop: we probably intake an average of 3-12 animals a months..sometimes getting large groups at one time JungleDancer: thank you SmallScaleRescue: Percentage? Last year we had a very bad year.... I actually ended up taking in more animals that were dying than I could heal.. jiffypop: some are easy to place and only remain here for the 30 day quarantine period. other stay a long time. SmallScaleRescue: I had more snakes last year that we euthanized because they had full systemic infections... jiffypop: i have animals here that we took in back in 1997 SmallScaleRescue: Of the healthy ones, I had nice placements... We places (not including our beardie blast) 27 reptiles. If you include the beardies, we placed close to 100 SmallScaleRescue: Iguanas, we do not place well at all. I have had a record two placements this year actually... jiffypop: cash donations are few and far between but always appreciated. we do get some nice donations occasionally of supplies and feeders SmallScaleRescue: placements are hard to find. I get a lot of people looking for the big snakes to show off their manly-ness. I run criminal background checks and for every boa application I get I deny at least 10 because they are drug dealers. SmallScaleRescue: Reptile rescue is a whole different ball game from the normal dog and cat rescues... SmallScaleRescue: Intake. THis week I am taking in 3 savannah monitors and a ball python... I just took a box turtle... Last week I took nothing. I average intaking 10 animals a month and place maybe 7 jiffypop: unlike dog and cat rescue, foster homes are very difficult to find for reptiels SmallScaleRescue: exactly... JungleDancer: thank you Cindy and Jane, you are both very busy!! JungleDancer: ? JackDog603_nr: Hi guys..Thanks for speaking from a rescue perspective tonight. If we're talking about physically LOSING a snake or lizard has anyone come up with an injectable GPS unit yet along the lines of a microchip? I know that collar units exist for larger animals and operate kind of on the same principle as LoJack. SmallScaleRescue: The collar unit just came out for dogs.... as far as I am aware (and I work in a shelter) there is no unit... SmallScaleRescue: I personally plan on microchipping all my show animals jiffypop: i'm not aware of anything available like a GPS for reptiles, however they can be chipped SmallScaleRescue: but right now the GPS collar unit runs $500 and there is no implantable thing like that SmallScaleRescue: I do know they are testing one for humans coastalherper: Do you ever get geckos? What kinds? Also do you guys have a web site? Do you ship animals? jiffypop: we get leopard geckos quite frequently, sometimes fat-tails and tokays SmallScaleRescue: I have gotten in a few geckos... a few very healthy leos last year and one not so good this year we lost... SmallScaleRescue: We also get tokays on occasion... jiffypop: our website is www.michiganreptilerescue.org SmallScaleRescue: website is http://www.geocities.com/faustcorpus/WI_NIAD.html jiffypop: and we ship, weather permitting SmallScaleRescue: it needs a major rehauling which I am working on SmallScaleRescue: and I do not ship but adopt to WI, IL, MN and other surrounding states bps4ever: What are your adoption fees? jiffypop: our adoption fees range from $5 to $40 in most cases. SmallScaleRescue: adoption fees vary. Unfortunatly going back to what jungle asked at times fees may be higher to help us recoup the med costs. bps4ever: Its nice to know y'all are out there..thank you. SmallScaleRescue: but it ranges between 10$ and 50 depending... jiffypop: we have had a few exceptional and uncommon animals that had slightly higher fees SmallScaleRescue: I also tend to put a VERY high fee on some of my larger snakes to deter the initial "moron" app to be honest. It does weed out people. When they adopt they get a real fee bps4ever: lol thank you very much lironsamuels: I'm from Israel, so I'm unaware of the weather in Michigan and WI. Does it allow species to become intrusive (such as iguanas and burms in Florida) or does it get too cold at times? Have any reptiles become intrusive species in Michigan or WI? SmallScaleRescue: Yes SmallScaleRescue: Painted and sliders SmallScaleRescue: that is the primary species I can think of... jiffypop: most reptiles would not survive a winter in Michigan, except as Cindy stated, some turtles. SmallScaleRescue: we both have very severe winters here SmallScaleRescue: which thankfully prevents the fun florida is dealing with snakysmom: It's snakysmom, thank you. You rescue Burms? jiffypop: all the time SmallScaleRescue: quite often snakysmom: What happens to them most of the time? SmallScaleRescue: I have two right now... Precious a 10 foot owner surrender who is fairly nice and a 7 foot burm that was seized in a drug raid a few weeks ago that isnt so very nice jiffypop: i'm currently housing many burms, several of them 10 feet plus SmallScaleRescue: We work to get them into educational programs. Members of herp societies who work in the public eye education about reptiles. I do not adopt large snakes to general public SmallScaleRescue: I have an agreement with my local animal control facility on this one... jiffypop: our policy is the same as Cindy's as far as burm adoptions. most of them are here for a long period of time. jiffypop: ditto for Rocks and Retics SmallScaleRescue: Yes, burms are always a long term animal SmallScaleRescue: and anacondas snakysmom: All of my "babies" were dumped on me. I was not a snake lover, but now am wholeheartedly. My first-born is now 12 years old and 16 ft. long. I'm 52 yrs. old with a bad back. I'm scared to death what's going to happen to her in the near future. SmallScaleRescue: That is one thing we reptile owners need to look at SmallScaleRescue: much like bird owners we own excessivly long lived animals SmallScaleRescue: My sulcatta will probably outlive me to be honest... jiffypop: agreed. as a Cyclura keeper I need to think about what will happen to my animals after I'm gone since, hopefully, they will outlive me. SmallScaleRescue: Looking at family members now to take on your future, joining a herp society and befriending folks there. SmallScaleRescue: It is good to have something planned out in writing SmallScaleRescue: I have a will for my animals. Who to contact should I die or become unable to care for them. Not for my husband however... SmallScaleRescue: guess he knows where he ranks SmallScaleRescue: but it is smart to start planning now no matter if you are 52 or 30 like me CJinNH: I take in snake rescues on a regular basis, should I apply for non-profit status and if so what are the benefits?? Also can I run a succesful rescue and be selective due to space and time restrictions jiffypop: or somewhere between, like me snakysmom: How do you "plan" with a giant snake? SmallScaleRescue: yeah i need younger friends SmallScaleRescue: Snaky we will get back to you in just one second SmallScaleRescue: Neither of us have non profit SmallScaleRescue: The biggest benefit that I can see with non-profit is that there is an ease to getting donations over all. jiffypop: not they we don't want it, but finding time to do the paperwork is impossible when you work a full time job and have 100 animals to care for daily. SmallScaleRescue: Aquiring non profit status runs around 600-1000$ if you do it on your own SmallScaleRescue: Lots of red tape, you need a board of directors and you need to be VERY good at keeping your books. SmallScaleRescue: as my name states I am fairly small scale... CJinNH: ok thanks, sounds almost like more work then it is worth SmallScaleRescue: Other than making it possible to get in on larger donation issues I dont see it as being feesable or needed at this point... I do everything from home, I have built a very solid reputation as a rescue and run with a strong code of ethics. jiffypop: some rescues skate into non-profit by working with their local Humane Societies, which already have 501c3 status SmallScaleRescue: that i hope speaks volumnes more than the 501 status SmallScaleRescue: snakys, where to start would be getting involved in your local herp society as a first line SmallScaleRescue: talk to members there. Most herp societies will be there when their members pass to assist the families. We just went thru that with the CHS xNeViNx: im sorry if you answered this aready. but im just wandering what you have now(in rescue). and do you have any of the bigger snakes...anacnodas, retics, burms SmallScaleRescue: always have bigger snakes.... right now I have boas and burms jiffypop: we have all of the above, including a large pair of Tiger Retics. SmallScaleRescue: oh and balls SmallScaleRescue: lots of balls right now jiffypop: we also have condas, and Rocks xNeViNx: are they all rescues? SmallScaleRescue: yes... jiffypop: rescues in the sense that they needed rehoming. not all animals that we take in are sick or injured xNeViNx: very cool. thanx SmallScaleRescue: in fact I will be picking up another ball this evening xNeViNx: yeah thats what i ment as well snakysmom: I belonged to Idaho Herps , but a year ago we moved to Arizona. I have attepted contact with various societies here but they don't get back to you. SmallScaleRescue: Go to their meetings! SmallScaleRescue: Join! SmallScaleRescue: Become a member! snakysmom: I don't know where they are. SmallScaleRescue: thats the best way to get noticed jiffypop: or start a society if there isn't one in your area. SmallScaleRescue: try this one http://www.azreptiles.com/ snakysmom: Thank you. SmallScaleRescue: they are out there... just need to look SmallScaleRescue: also look at www.anapsid.org SmallScaleRescue: she has listings of herp societies there SmallScaleRescue: http://www.anapsid.org/societies/arizona.html Gailyn: Why are so many ball pythons going into rescue? Are they that over populated??? Or is it just more stupid people deciding the bp doesn't go with their decor anymore? SmallScaleRescue: Actually I have gotten in most of mine as confiscations jiffypop: we get ball pythons for many reasons but i think the most common is that a kid has outgrown the interest. SmallScaleRescue: I have had one owner surrender this year because the kid was going to college but the rest have come in as a confiscation of stupid ownership... jiffypop: we also get them from drug bust confiscations. SmallScaleRescue: Im just amazed at how slow placing them has been because I think they are such great snakes Gailyn: I was considering breeding my female when she is old enough... but I worry about the offspring getting proper care! CJinNH: do either of you run a reptile society? Our local herp society basically fell apart a couple of years ago due to poor leadership and I was thinking of starting a new one, any thoughts, should I contact the old chapter? SmallScaleRescue: I think herp societies are important for many reasons... jiffypop: we are both board members of herp societies. SmallScaleRescue: Education is the biggest one... We need a strong educational force out there... SmallScaleRescue: I sit on the BOD of the Chicago Herp Society SmallScaleRescue: Herp societies are also important in working agaisnt bans jiffypop: a society can offer many resources that are not available to the general public, plus give a chance to socialize with people that don't think you're crazy. SmallScaleRescue: they also offer another outlet for networking with rescue animals. A captive audience that has an interest in the animals SmallScaleRescue: if your local one closed, you might want to consider starting one up jiffypop: i know the Michigan society and the CHS do many many outreach and educational exhibits every year SmallScaleRescue: and as jane said, it gives you a place to feel a part of a group... having a reptile is awe inspiring at times jiffypop: education is the key to choosing the right pet and keeping it longterm CJinNH: our local one was 5 states and I think that was also a problem, too stretched out, I would be best to start just my state I think......thanks for the info SmallScaleRescue: yeah that is pretty stretched and hard to get a core network jiffypop: sometimes it's tough for us statewide coastalherper: I've been hearing slot about drug dealer confiscations. What are all of these? Why do drug dealers have snakes? SmallScaleRescue: interesting question SmallScaleRescue: Ever watch animal cops? coastalherper: yah SmallScaleRescue: Ever see how a dealer will hide drugs? SmallScaleRescue: false bottem snake cages SmallScaleRescue: same with large monitors and gators... jiffypop: ACO's don't like handling those kinds of animals SmallScaleRescue: the very first boa i ever got in had the crack cocaine in a rubbermaid in his enclosure... SmallScaleRescue: and one other thing. On the general whole if you EVER hear a story that contains pit bulls and alligators there is only one thing that person does with his dogs SmallScaleRescue: he is a dog fighter and the gator is his disposal system coastalherper: thats cruel and wrong! SmallScaleRescue: yep... sad but true... PHLdyPayne: Thank you both, Jane and Cindy for being here tonight.It's really horrible what people do to their pets. It makes me want to track down these people and infect the same level of abuse on them, so they know what it felt like to the reptile. You mentioned how Reptile Societies can work to stop or modify bans of reptile and exotic pets. This is very true, as the local herp society here in Ottawa, Ontario, some of the key members prevented a all inclusive ban in the city of exotic pets, instead restricting ownership of the larger more dangerous reptiles, such as burmese pythons, retics, green iguanas, large monitors etc. leaving the more common reptile pets still available, bearded dragons, ball pythons, leopard geckos and others. What I would like to ask, in what way could people help prevent animals from winding up in shelters. Also, for those interested, in what ways could people help your shelters? jiffypop: like i said before, education plays a huge part, starting with the initial choice of a reptile pet. SmallScaleRescue: reading about what tehy are getting... education is a big thing... SmallScaleRescue: animals dont stay babies forever.... plain and simple... SmallScaleRescue: Helping a rescue? Thats a big answer... jiffypop: we get so many animals as owner surrenders and it's always the same reason. "i didn't know it would get so big!!" SmallScaleRescue: Cash always helps, but we often need things like feeders (rodents arent cheap) gas cards (because people dont want to deliver the animals they want to get rid of) gift certs for places like home depot SmallScaleRescue: we need to build caging... SmallScaleRescue: supplies are always needed... SmallScaleRescue: and foster homes are always needed jiffypop: even simple things like paper towelling and plates, there is a use for just about anything. SmallScaleRescue: exactly... Litter boxes make great water dishes... laundry bags for transports... provent a mite SmallScaleRescue: everything a reptile owner would need, rescues need to but in BIG quantities jiffypop: be an advocate for responsible pet ownership, educate people that show an interest. jiffypop: i get all excited about a couple of 4-packs of lightbulbs! LOL SmallScaleRescue: we are very easily excited PHFaust: On behalf of Kingsnake.com, Jeff B, and myself, I want to take a moment to thank Jane and Cindy for being part of our chat week. Jane and Cindy thanks for taking the time out to chat with us about
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