Kingsnake.com
Jane Billette - Mid Michigan Reptile Rescue and Cindy Steinle - Small
Scale Reptile Reptile Rescue
Herps in Rescue: Avoiding Being a Statistic
March 3, 2006
PHFaust: Good evening and on behalf of Jeff Barringer and
all of us at kingsnake.com, thank you for joining us for our Eighth
Annual Chat Week!
PHFaust: Tonight we are pleased to welcome Jane Billette -
Mid Michigan Reptile Rescue and Cindy Steinle - Small Scale Reptile
Reptile Rescue for our rescue panel. They will be discussing How to
avoid being a statisic. What you can do to prevent loosing your animals.
PHFaust: Each of the ladies will offer a brief intro of themselves
and the work their rescues have done before we begin. Thanks Jane
and Cindy, and welcome!
SmallScaleRescue: My Name is Cindy Steinle and I run Small
Scale Reptile Rescue in Wisconsin. My rescue serves the state of WI
and northern IL and works in Partnership with Mid-Michigan Reptile
Rescue. I am a Board Member of the Chicago Herpetological society
and they assist me with karge snake and crocodilian relocation. I
am also a member of WI Dog and all other species rescue which is a
self policing organization of Breed Rescues and a coalition of Shelters
that cover the entire state of WI. I also am in the employ of a humane
society here in WI as well as sitting on the Board of Specialty Pure
Bred Cat Rescue and Chicagoland Bully Breed Rescue. I have been working
in reptile rescue for 10 years now. Last year SSRR had over 80 animals
pass through our doors.
jiffypop: My name is Jane and I started doing reptile rescue
back in 1996. I am a board member of the Michigan Society of Herpetologists,
a member of the Chicago Herp Society and the International Iguana
Society. My daughter and I work as a team to rescue, rehabilitate,
socialize, and place all species of reptiles and some small furry
exotics. We participate in as many educational exhibits as we can
fit into our schedule. Reptile rescue has become more than just a
hobby for us, it's a way of life.
jiffypop: good evening folks
SmallScaleRescue: We can give you a moment to read our novels...
lironsamuels: hi jane and cindy, what are the most common
reptiles you get?
SmallScaleRescue: IGUANAS IGUANAS IGUANAS!!!!
jiffypop: and lately boas, burms, savannahs, and sulcattas
SmallScaleRescue: We see a lot of Green Iguanas. Savannah
monitors, burms, boas, sulcattas. All things that are big as adults
coastalherper: What is the most exotic reptile you've ever
gotten? Also what was your favorite? Also what was the biggest?
SmallScaleRescue: Most exotic was a Brazillian Rainbow Boa...
Or I should say most unusual...
jiffypop: For me I will have to say it was the 8 foot Croc
monitor. It was a boarder rather than a rescue and I was quite glad
to see it leave when it did.
SmallScaleRescue: My Largest was a surrender of an american
alligator named Big Al who was 7 feet 1 inch and 176 lbs...
jiffypop: My favorite was a 6 foot Nile monitor named Damian
who was a sweetheart of a Nile. GA
SmallScaleRescue: My favorite was probably the similis that
I have gotten in that always try to eat me
coastalherper: similis?
SmallScaleRescue: Spiny Tailed Iguanas
coastalherper: ohh
SmallScaleRescue: Very angry little kids
coastalherper: lol
jiffypop: not all of them!!
SmallScaleRescue: ok most
feline89: what would be the worst condition any of the reptiles
have been in when you got them?
coastalherper: thanks!
SmallScaleRescue: Oy where to start
jiffypop: really!
jiffypop: as an example, we just took in an 11 year old iguana
that is 26 inches SVL and weighs less than a pound
jiffypop: make that 26 inches STL
SmallScaleRescue: It could be the burm with an anal vent abcess
that went from top to bottom. The boa that was 8 foot and weighed
3 lbs with a broken jaw that was shattered completely beyond repair
and 14 rat bites... the green iguana that i picked up from an owner
and it DIED before I even got it home
SmallScaleRescue: The level of abuses put onto reptiles is
insane.
jiffypop: we also had an iguana that was used as a paint ball
target.
SmallScaleRescue: Lets put it this way, seeing a cigarette
burn on a snake no longer disturbes me and seeing DECLAWED iguanas
is fairly common place
jiffypop: one pretty female iguana had a gangrenous tail that
was so bad you could smell it a room away.
SmallScaleRescue: I could go on... but lets just say these
are some of my worst cases
JungleDancer: I have multi part questions.. I'm trying to
get an idea of how widespread reptile rescue needs are.... What percentage
of iguana /reptile rescues are you able to successfully rehabilitate
and rehome? How many new animals do you take in on an average month?
How are you funded?
SmallScaleRescue: Funding?
SmallScaleRescue: Umm my paycheck
jiffypop: what funding?
JungleDancer: Exactly what I thought... done from own funds?
SmallScaleRescue: Occasionally we get donations... We do things
like pet fairs just like the dog and cat rescues do, but the thing
is people are to some extent repulsed in those venues...
SmallScaleRescue: we save the things that go bump in the night...
JungleDancer: I think the need is there, I wish the public
would be more open with funding to help
jiffypop: we probably intake an average of 3-12 animals a
months..sometimes getting large groups at one time
JungleDancer: thank you
SmallScaleRescue: Percentage? Last year we had a very bad
year.... I actually ended up taking in more animals that were dying
than I could heal..
jiffypop: some are easy to place and only remain here for
the 30 day quarantine period. other stay a long time.
SmallScaleRescue: I had more snakes last year that we euthanized
because they had full systemic infections...
jiffypop: i have animals here that we took in back in 1997
SmallScaleRescue: Of the healthy ones, I had nice placements...
We places (not including our beardie blast) 27 reptiles. If you include
the beardies, we placed close to 100
SmallScaleRescue: Iguanas, we do not place well at all. I
have had a record two placements this year actually...
jiffypop: cash donations are few and far between but always
appreciated. we do get some nice donations occasionally of supplies
and feeders
SmallScaleRescue: placements are hard to find. I get a lot
of people looking for the big snakes to show off their manly-ness.
I run criminal background checks and for every boa application I get
I deny at least 10 because they are drug dealers.
SmallScaleRescue: Reptile rescue is a whole different ball
game from the normal dog and cat rescues...
SmallScaleRescue: Intake. THis week I am taking in 3 savannah
monitors and a ball python... I just took a box turtle... Last week
I took nothing. I average intaking 10 animals a month and place maybe
7
jiffypop: unlike dog and cat rescue, foster homes are very
difficult to find for reptiels
SmallScaleRescue: exactly...
JungleDancer: thank you Cindy and Jane, you are both very
busy!!
JungleDancer: ?
JackDog603_nr: Hi guys..Thanks for speaking from a rescue
perspective tonight. If we're talking about physically LOSING a snake
or lizard has anyone come up with an injectable GPS unit yet along
the lines of a microchip? I know that collar units exist for larger
animals and operate kind of on the same principle as LoJack.
SmallScaleRescue: The collar unit just came out for dogs....
as far as I am aware (and I work in a shelter) there is no unit...
SmallScaleRescue: I personally plan on microchipping all my
show animals
jiffypop: i'm not aware of anything available like a GPS for
reptiles, however they can be chipped
SmallScaleRescue: but right now the GPS collar unit runs $500
and there is no implantable thing like that
SmallScaleRescue: I do know they are testing one for humans
coastalherper: Do you ever get geckos? What kinds? Also do
you guys have a web site? Do you ship animals?
jiffypop: we get leopard geckos quite frequently, sometimes
fat-tails and tokays
SmallScaleRescue: I have gotten in a few geckos... a few very
healthy leos last year and one not so good this year we lost...
SmallScaleRescue: We also get tokays on occasion...
jiffypop: our website is www.michiganreptilerescue.org
SmallScaleRescue: website is http://www.geocities.com/faustcorpus/WI_NIAD.html
jiffypop: and we ship, weather permitting
SmallScaleRescue: it needs a major rehauling which I am working
on
SmallScaleRescue: and I do not ship but adopt to WI, IL, MN
and other surrounding states
bps4ever: What are your adoption fees?
jiffypop: our adoption fees range from $5 to $40 in most cases.
SmallScaleRescue: adoption fees vary. Unfortunatly going back
to what jungle asked at times fees may be higher to help us recoup
the med costs.
bps4ever: Its nice to know y'all are out there..thank you.
SmallScaleRescue: but it ranges between 10$ and 50 depending...
jiffypop: we have had a few exceptional and uncommon animals
that had slightly higher fees
SmallScaleRescue: I also tend to put a VERY high fee on some
of my larger snakes to deter the initial "moron" app to
be honest. It does weed out people. When they adopt they get a real
fee
bps4ever: lol thank you very much
lironsamuels: I'm from Israel, so I'm unaware of the weather
in Michigan and WI. Does it allow species to become intrusive (such
as iguanas and burms in Florida) or does it get too cold at times?
Have any reptiles become intrusive species in Michigan or WI?
SmallScaleRescue: Yes
SmallScaleRescue: Painted and sliders
SmallScaleRescue: that is the primary species I can think
of...
jiffypop: most reptiles would not survive a winter in Michigan,
except as Cindy stated, some turtles.
SmallScaleRescue: we both have very severe winters here
SmallScaleRescue: which thankfully prevents the fun florida
is dealing with
snakysmom: It's snakysmom, thank you. You rescue Burms?
jiffypop: all the time
SmallScaleRescue: quite often
snakysmom: What happens to them most of the time?
SmallScaleRescue: I have two right now... Precious a 10 foot
owner surrender who is fairly nice and a 7 foot burm that was seized
in a drug raid a few weeks ago that isnt so very nice
jiffypop: i'm currently housing many burms, several of them
10 feet plus
SmallScaleRescue: We work to get them into educational programs.
Members of herp societies who work in the public eye education about
reptiles. I do not adopt large snakes to general public
SmallScaleRescue: I have an agreement with my local animal
control facility on this one...
jiffypop: our policy is the same as Cindy's as far as burm
adoptions. most of them are here for a long period of time.
jiffypop: ditto for Rocks and Retics
SmallScaleRescue: Yes, burms are always a long term animal
SmallScaleRescue: and anacondas
snakysmom: All of my "babies" were dumped on me.
I was not a snake lover, but now am wholeheartedly. My first-born
is now 12 years old and 16 ft. long. I'm 52 yrs. old with a bad back.
I'm scared to death what's going to happen to her in the near future.
SmallScaleRescue: That is one thing we reptile owners need
to look at
SmallScaleRescue: much like bird owners we own excessivly
long lived animals
SmallScaleRescue: My sulcatta will probably outlive me to
be honest...
jiffypop: agreed. as a Cyclura keeper I need to think about
what will happen to my animals after I'm gone since, hopefully, they
will outlive me.
SmallScaleRescue: Looking at family members now to take on
your future, joining a herp society and befriending folks there.
SmallScaleRescue: It is good to have something planned out
in writing
SmallScaleRescue: I have a will for my animals. Who to contact
should I die or become unable to care for them. Not for my husband
however...
SmallScaleRescue: guess he knows where he ranks
SmallScaleRescue: but it is smart to start planning now no
matter if you are 52 or 30 like me
CJinNH: I take in snake rescues on a regular basis, should
I apply for non-profit status and if so what are the benefits?? Also
can I run a succesful rescue and be selective due to space and time
restrictions
jiffypop: or somewhere between, like me
snakysmom: How do you "plan" with a giant snake?
SmallScaleRescue: yeah i need younger friends
SmallScaleRescue: Snaky we will get back to you in just one
second
SmallScaleRescue: Neither of us have non profit
SmallScaleRescue: The biggest benefit that I can see with
non-profit is that there is an ease to getting donations over all.
jiffypop: not they we don't want it, but finding time to do
the paperwork is impossible when you work a full time job and have
100 animals to care for daily.
SmallScaleRescue: Aquiring non profit status runs around 600-1000$
if you do it on your own
SmallScaleRescue: Lots of red tape, you need a board of directors
and you need to be VERY good at keeping your books.
SmallScaleRescue: as my name states I am fairly small scale...
CJinNH: ok thanks, sounds almost like more work then it is
worth
SmallScaleRescue: Other than making it possible to get in
on larger donation issues I dont see it as being feesable or needed
at this point... I do everything from home, I have built a very solid
reputation as a rescue and run with a strong code of ethics.
jiffypop: some rescues skate into non-profit by working with
their local Humane Societies, which already have 501c3 status
SmallScaleRescue: that i hope speaks volumnes more than the
501 status
SmallScaleRescue: snakys, where to start would be getting
involved in your local herp society as a first line
SmallScaleRescue: talk to members there. Most herp societies
will be there when their members pass to assist the families. We just
went thru that with the CHS
xNeViNx: im sorry if you answered this aready. but im just
wandering what you have now(in rescue). and do you have any of the
bigger snakes...anacnodas, retics, burms
SmallScaleRescue: always have bigger snakes.... right now
I have boas and burms
jiffypop: we have all of the above, including a large pair
of Tiger Retics.
SmallScaleRescue: oh and balls
SmallScaleRescue: lots of balls right now
jiffypop: we also have condas, and Rocks
xNeViNx: are they all rescues?
SmallScaleRescue: yes...
jiffypop: rescues in the sense that they needed rehoming.
not all animals that we take in are sick or injured
xNeViNx: very cool. thanx
SmallScaleRescue: in fact I will be picking up another ball
this evening
xNeViNx: yeah thats what i ment as well
snakysmom: I belonged to Idaho Herps , but a year ago we moved
to Arizona. I have attepted contact with various societies here but
they don't get back to you.
SmallScaleRescue: Go to their meetings!
SmallScaleRescue: Join!
SmallScaleRescue: Become a member!
snakysmom: I don't know where they are.
SmallScaleRescue: thats the best way to get noticed
jiffypop: or start a society if there isn't one in your area.
SmallScaleRescue: try this one http://www.azreptiles.com/
snakysmom: Thank you.
SmallScaleRescue: they are out there... just need to look
SmallScaleRescue: also look at www.anapsid.org
SmallScaleRescue: she has listings of herp societies there
SmallScaleRescue: http://www.anapsid.org/societies/arizona.html
Gailyn: Why are so many ball pythons going into rescue? Are
they that over populated??? Or is it just more stupid people deciding
the bp doesn't go with their decor anymore?
SmallScaleRescue: Actually I have gotten in most of mine as
confiscations
jiffypop: we get ball pythons for many reasons but i think
the most common is that a kid has outgrown the interest.
SmallScaleRescue: I have had one owner surrender this year
because the kid was going to college but the rest have come in as
a confiscation of stupid ownership...
jiffypop: we also get them from drug bust confiscations.
SmallScaleRescue: Im just amazed at how slow placing them
has been because I think they are such great snakes
Gailyn: I was considering breeding my female when she is old
enough... but I worry about the offspring getting proper care!
CJinNH: do either of you run a reptile society? Our local
herp society basically fell apart a couple of years ago due to poor
leadership and I was thinking of starting a new one, any thoughts,
should I contact the old chapter?
SmallScaleRescue: I think herp societies are important for
many reasons...
jiffypop: we are both board members of herp societies.
SmallScaleRescue: Education is the biggest one... We need
a strong educational force out there...
SmallScaleRescue: I sit on the BOD of the Chicago Herp Society
SmallScaleRescue: Herp societies are also important in working
agaisnt bans
jiffypop: a society can offer many resources that are not
available to the general public, plus give a chance to socialize with
people that don't think you're crazy.
SmallScaleRescue: they also offer another outlet for networking
with rescue animals. A captive audience that has an interest in the
animals
SmallScaleRescue: if your local one closed, you might want
to consider starting one up
jiffypop: i know the Michigan society and the CHS do many
many outreach and educational exhibits every year
SmallScaleRescue: and as jane said, it gives you a place to
feel a part of a group... having a reptile is awe inspiring at times
jiffypop: education is the key to choosing the right pet and
keeping it longterm
CJinNH: our local one was 5 states and I think that was also
a problem, too stretched out, I would be best to start just my state
I think......thanks for the info
SmallScaleRescue: yeah that is pretty stretched and hard to
get a core network
jiffypop: sometimes it's tough for us statewide
coastalherper: I've been hearing slot about drug dealer confiscations.
What are all of these? Why do drug dealers have snakes?
SmallScaleRescue: interesting question
SmallScaleRescue: Ever watch animal cops?
coastalherper: yah
SmallScaleRescue: Ever see how a dealer will hide drugs?
SmallScaleRescue: false bottem snake cages
SmallScaleRescue: same with large monitors and gators...
jiffypop: ACO's don't like handling those kinds of animals
SmallScaleRescue: the very first boa i ever got in had the
crack cocaine in a rubbermaid in his enclosure...
SmallScaleRescue: and one other thing. On the general whole
if you EVER hear a story that contains pit bulls and alligators there
is only one thing that person does with his dogs
SmallScaleRescue: he is a dog fighter and the gator is his
disposal system
coastalherper: thats cruel and wrong!
SmallScaleRescue: yep... sad but true...
PHLdyPayne: Thank you both, Jane and Cindy for being here
tonight.It's really horrible what people do to their pets. It makes
me want to track down these people and infect the same level of abuse
on them, so they know what it felt like to the reptile. You mentioned
how Reptile Societies can work to stop or modify bans of reptile and
exotic pets. This is very true, as the local herp society here in
Ottawa, Ontario, some of the key members prevented a all inclusive
ban in the city of exotic pets, instead restricting ownership of the
larger more dangerous reptiles, such as burmese pythons, retics, green
iguanas, large monitors etc. leaving the more common reptile pets
still available, bearded dragons, ball pythons, leopard geckos and
others. What I would like to ask, in what way could people help prevent
animals from winding up in shelters. Also, for those interested, in
what ways could people help your shelters?
jiffypop: like i said before, education plays a huge part,
starting with the initial choice of a reptile pet.
SmallScaleRescue: reading about what tehy are getting... education
is a big thing...
SmallScaleRescue: animals dont stay babies forever.... plain
and simple...
SmallScaleRescue: Helping a rescue? Thats a big answer...
jiffypop: we get so many animals as owner surrenders and it's
always the same reason. "i didn't know it would get so big!!"
SmallScaleRescue: Cash always helps, but we often need things
like feeders (rodents arent cheap) gas cards (because people dont
want to deliver the animals they want to get rid of) gift certs for
places like home depot
SmallScaleRescue: we need to build caging...
SmallScaleRescue: supplies are always needed...
SmallScaleRescue: and foster homes are always needed
jiffypop: even simple things like paper towelling and plates,
there is a use for just about anything.
SmallScaleRescue: exactly... Litter boxes make great water
dishes... laundry bags for transports... provent a mite
SmallScaleRescue: everything a reptile owner would need, rescues
need to but in BIG quantities
jiffypop: be an advocate for responsible pet ownership, educate
people that show an interest.
jiffypop: i get all excited about a couple of 4-packs of lightbulbs!
LOL
SmallScaleRescue: we are very easily excited
PHFaust: On behalf of Kingsnake.com, Jeff B, and myself, I
want to take a moment to thank Jane and Cindy for being part of our
chat week. Jane and Cindy thanks for taking the time out to chat with
us about
