Kingsnake.com
Chris Dieter
Crocodilian Care
February 26, 2006
PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at kingsnake.com,
I'm very pleased to welcome Chris Dieter to our Eighth Annual Chat
Week.
PHFaust: Chris along with his wife Bernadette are the owners
and operators of Crocodile Encounter an educational wildlife company
in the Houston area. He is the author of The Ultimate Guide to Crocodilians
in Captivity and is coauthor of a forthcoming title from Kreiger publishing
on the same topic. He has written over 40 herp related articles for
various herptelogical publications. He and his wife maintain a group
of Nile crocodiles(Crocodylus niloticus) and these animals and their
care are the primary herptelogical interest. Chris has traveled the
USA researching the various methods zoos and private keepers use to
maintain crocodilians in captivity.
PHFaust: Thank you so much for joining us, Chris, and welcome!
CDieter: glad to be here
Adam105_nr: Have you ever worked with Steve Irwin and how
do you feel you square up with him when it comes to crocs?
CDieter: No I have never worked with Mr.Irwin. We do very
different things with crocs.
Adam105_nr: Oh I see....well I must say I respect and admire
the work you do! And thanks for coming tonight!
cham_man_nr: What do you think about private keppers with
crocodillians
CDieter: The problem begins when people in apartments purchase
animals as hatchlings with no real forward thought about the animal
as an adult. You have to think animal first.
cham_man_nr: I am looking into getting a dwarf caiman do you
think that would be a good begginer
CDieter: Yes, probably the best choice overall.
krn: Hey chris howd you get into herps and what
was your first herp?
CDieter: Turtles where how I got my start, I had great parents
and turtles still remain a passion
krn: thanks
Papusaurus: Hello Chris, do you work solely with Crocodilians?
Have you ever had the chance to work with Varanus Salvadorii, (crocodile
monitors)...I myself work with two crocodile monitors..
CDieter: I used to have a large group of crocodile monitors
and got quite a few eggs, but now primarily crocs and the animals
we use in our educational business.
RedBeard92: Hi Chris, since you maintain a collection
of Niles, do you find that some or all individuals show periods of
fasting (during periods where temps are conducive to eating)?
CDieter: Good question. Yes, I was just talking about
this with Israel Dupont today. Some Niles appear to have different
appetites depending on the area they originate from.
RedBeard92: My caiman (and i understand other crocs) refuse
food periodically
CDieter: I find animals originating from SAfrica eat
far less in the cooler months than do Niles from East/West regions
of Africa
CDieter: Thats normal, as long as the animals body
weight is good I wouldn't worry much.
CDieter: But I worry alot anyway:-)_
RedBeard92: I've been going through this for 10 years
soderstrum: Hello chris how do you feel with so many people
getting in over their head large alligators or crocodiles? Do you
feel this should be left to the experts
CDieter: I am of mixed feeling on this one. I think
people should have the oppurtunity to experience these animals but
in reality very few are willing or able to commit the space/time/money
it takes to keep them throughout their lifespan. So I'm kinda double
minded on the whole affair.
CDieter: I personally would not sell a crocodilian.
geofri: what are your oppinions on slowing a crocadilians
grow by reduced feeding? and what reading material would you recomend
about captive husbandry of american alligators?
CDieter: Immoral, unethical and frankly anyone who
does it shouldn't own the animal. I would recommend my book as well
as a few others including websites such as crocodilian.com
Gailyn: Do you think the public should keep crocs or
caimen as pets or do even the minis/dwarfs grow to be unmanageable
for the novice?
CDieter: I think dwarf caiman, while certainly not
small animals can be accomadated by many serious keepers. The funds
are not extreme and neither is the space. I don't think many people
will have success with gators or the larger crocodiles in the private
sector.
CDieter: I do not think crocodilian bans are necessary
in most cases. next
goini04: Hi Chris, what are your thoughts on enrichment
for crocodilians? Enrichment appears to be picking up a bit for herpetoculture
as a whole, do you think that it is beneficial in any way for crocodilians?
If so, what are some recommended ways to provide it safely?
CDieter: I think enrichment is an important part of
a captive crocodilians routine. It can be as simple as making the
animal leave the water to be fed.
CDieter: What you hope to avoid is the continuos monotony
that the captive environment is prone to produce.
king_dj_nr: is it crocidiles or aligators that preform
bellowing?
CDieter: Both, but alligators are much more vocal than
than other crocodilians.
Reptilefreak16: Chris, have you been called in at all to try
and recover that loose gator, Bubba or whatever they call him, in
california?
CDieter: No, I'm an academic. I research and write. I have
just been informed that Steve Irwin will be attempting to capture
Reggie.
UAWPrez: I see you are from the Houston area, do you have
a public facility where you work with crocs and do you work with the
zoo in Houston?
CDieter: We do not currently have a public facility, one has
been in the works for some time but has progressed slowly. We currently
do educational shows throughout the Houston area.
UAWPrez: how do we find how details where and when?
CDieter: We are currently working on a plan with an established
park to bring our show to them permenantly.
UAWPrez: interesting...thank you
CDieter: details can be found on my website www.thecrocodileexperience.com
von_papineau: Sir; The recent press is making a lot of some
events involving a few irresponsible or unlucky croc keepers who have
allowed their animals to get out in public (either by accident or
abandonment). There's a distinct move in some U.S. states for if not
banning, at least registering large herps such as crocs, the larger
monitors and pythons. There is even talk of having to have microchip
in the larger herps to allow various authorities to determine the
origin of an escaped/abandoned animal. Your thoughts on croc registration/tagging
please? Thanks for taking time to be here. Wes (ends)
CDieter: Hi Wes, thanks for all the articles on the forum.
I personally don't have much of a problem with ID chips such as AVID.
I think we all should be responsible for our animals. If they had
a chip with GPS abilities I would buy one for certain for each of
my animals in the case of accidents. I guess I would prefer registration
to an outright ban.
SpinsRetics: "Chris, Have you done much research on American
Alligators in the Louisiana area, Atchafalaya basin more precisely?
I live near here so would appreciate any feedback."
CDieter: I don't do field research, my research is on captive
care scenarios.
soderstrum: Chris what do you feed your niles? Is there any
live prey offered?
CDieter: We feed a variety of items. The primary diet is beef,
poultry, and large rodents. We also use Mazuri crocodilian diet which
is really excellent.
CDieter: fish on occasion but the results are better with
the other items so it is just a treat.
teguD: Do you travel specimens over 6', and if so,
in what?
CDieter: Since we only do our educational shows in the Houston
area we use large rubbermaid containers and usually take animals in
the 3-5ft range.
CDieter: You will need to build a crate. I don't
their is a commercially available container large enough.
teguD: that's what I had found also, thank you
Reptilefreak16: what is the best way for people,who
want to learn more about reptiles in general, to get a better hands
on experience with the larger animals? like doyou take volunteers
to help with your presentations?
Reptilefreak16: sorry
teguD: question was on transports, and source for the Mazuri
diet
CDieter: Good question. It is often difficult to get someone
to let you work with the animals especially if they are large predators
like crocodilians BUT having said that I do have people help with
out presentations from time to time. They watch for a few, then help
when we need them.
PHFaust: Reptile herp societies in your area a good hook up
as well
CDieter: Volunteering will often get you foot in the door
as most need help with large collections. But I usually pay, I was
poor once:-)
goini04: looks like I'll be moving to Houston!
CDieter: look me up Chris
goini04: Chris, while handling crocodilians (in particular
the larger specimens) it can be quite stressful for them, what types
of measurements to you take to limit stress to the animals that you
use in your educational programs?
CDieter: Most of the animals we use in the educational shows
are 3-5ft. They are also somewhat used to doing the events and are
pretty easily captures and taped. The total amount of time they are
involved in a presentation is usually 10 minutes tops. We also rotate
crocodilians so they really only work 1-2 days a month.
CDieter: Which is not very hard on them, we also use the shows
to do basic maintenance while the animal is out so we kill 2 birds
with 1 stone.
goini04: ok, sounds logical
NucklePhil: is feeding my asianwater monitor lizards and frogs
bad for the monitor?
CDieter: I would not feed frogs to your water monitor
NucklePhil: are they good source of nuetriants?
NucklePhil: okay what about the lizards
CDieter: they are a good source of parasites.
PHAlex: Hi Chris, do you have any breeding programs for some
of the rare crocs?
CDieter: No, I'm an academic and a writer. All breeding programs
are conducted by a different kind of croc professional and zoological
institution.
funkmasterchez: Chris, i'm pretty new to herpetoculture, only
been in the hobby for about 2 years, but only heavily into it this
year. i am only 15, and limited to what i can keep and breed, and
cannot field herp as much as i would like to, but i am looking into
pursuing a career in herpetology, i was just wondering the best way
to learn, any books you reccomend, just want to soak up as much info
as possible...
CDieter: Good question. If your talking about croc books and
general information check out the Crocdirectory on the website www.thecrocodileexperience.com/crocdirectory
funkmasterchez: not neccesarily crocs, just herps in general
CDieter: it has tons of links. There are many avenues to working
with reptiles.
funkmasterchez: okay, thank you
jiffypop: Chris, thanks for taking the time to be here. Are
there any resources out there for captive animals that need to be
rehomed? This is a concern for me since being involved in rescue we
see about a dozen or more each year and they are difficult to place.
CDieter: Do you mean people you can send them to when they
are rescued by you?
jiffypop: yes, that is what I meant
CDieter: You can look at the website above for rescue links.
Also we take animals certain species before others. We take all Niles
as that is our primary area of interest anda few others are out there.
CDieter: We will take any crocodilian in and move it to a
suitable home if need be, we help out alot of rehoming organizations.
jiffypop: thank you
Reptilefreak16: Have you had any injuries caused by crocs
or to the crocs, in mishaps during or on your way to shows over the
years?
CDieter: We have never had a croc related injury. If an accident
occurs it's always our fault. We use animals acclimated to the shows
and are pretty experienced handlers.
PHAlex: How fast do niles grow in captivity?
CDieter: Great question it varies. I know of one Nile that
is over 13ft at 7 years of age. I have one of his children and it
is a very fast grower as well. I have a 7ft female who is just over
4 years old. And a 2year old that is about 4ft. So pretty fast.
PHFaust: Spinsretics did you have a question
SpinsRetics: yes, what is the maximum size that you've seen
the dwarf caimans obtain?
SpinsRetics: thanks
CDieter: I have owned a dwarf caiman that was 4.5ft. It was
the largest one I have ever seen. It was a broad 4.5ft and a very
difficult animal to deal with. They may be dwarfs but they are rough.
geofri: when did your interest in crocodilians first start,
and what was your first herp?
CDieter: a turtle was my first, my interest in crocs probably
started about the time my interest in dinosaurs and godzilla did.:-)
Sarcosuchus_nr: i worked with a male dwarf that was about
5.5
CDieter: thats bigger than any I have seen.
teguD: What form does that Mazuri diet you mentioned take?
Is it cost effective compared to frozen rodents? Can you refer a source
for ordering?
CDieter: Mazuri comes in a large biscuit and a small pellet.
I order mine from my feed store, you can order it from my website
and several other sources.
CDieter: I find it to be very cost effective.
teguD: so you just float the biscuit in the water
and they ID it as a food source and take it?
CDieter: Yes, the pellets float in the water and the crocs
take it. Some species better than others.
CDieter: BTW my dogs love Mazuri croc chow also;-)
RedBeard92: Do you have any mature females that
are unpaired? If so, do they lay eggs?- is there any problems with
female captive crocs such as egg-binding?
CDieter: No on the female croc question. Females will occasionaly
egg bind but it is by no means common.
goini04: Chris, does genetics have an ultimate play in how
large a crocodilians CAN grow, or is it more related to environment,
caloric intake, etc? Considering that crocodilians typically grow
throughout their lives, but are pretty much limited by weather conditions
and life span
CDieter: Good question Chris. Genetics matters. Just like
in humans genetics help to control how fast and how large animals
can grow. The conditions the animal is in either allow the animal
to achieve it's potential or underachieve.
CDieter: As they approach a genetically programmed size their
growth will slow. It will continue but it will slow.
TexasReptiles: are the niloticus you have, madagascan specimens?
CDieter: No, I have south african and east african animals.
Niles are a mix these days from most suppliers however and it is often
difficult to correctly trace the origins
MyPettingZoo: Hello Chris and thanks for taking time to visit
with us Do you as a croc expert think that they will ever lift the
ban in florida or ala on owning saltys or florida gators
CDieter: No, simply because they have a adequate permit system.
CDieter: You get the correct permit and you can own the croc
of your choice. It's not bad deal.
geofri: what is a most practical size indoor enclusure for
a 1-2' american alligator? and what do you personally use for one
that size?
CDieter: I would use a 300 gallon rubbermaid stock tank. It's
7ft long and about 3ft wide. t also has a drain at the bottom.
teguD: Do you know if legally you have to have a USDA licensed
facility to possess a West African Dwarf Croc?
teguD: I meant AZA facility - sorry
CDieter: USDA doesn't regulate crocs, USDI does. And yes you
will need a permit to get one out of state.
CDieter: oops didn't see your AZA, no on the AZA.
teguD: anybody breeding them in the US - if you know?
CDieter: dwarf crocs become available from time to time.
CDieter: yes, a few folks.
teguD: so no facility licensing or inspections, but have to
get a permit from USDI to transport across state lines like any other
Endangered species? I have this right?
CDieter: Yes teduD, you may need faciltiy inspections
depending on your county and state laws, not the USDA.
jeffb: How did katrina impact gators?
CDieter: In lousiana, miss, alabama it destroyed some gator
farms and has pushed the price of alligators up.
geofri: what is the main part of the diet of a wild nile croc?
CDieter: Large mammals, a large variety of fish, small mammals.
Nile crocodiles are survivors and will take any prey they can catch.
A large portion of Nile crocodiles go hungry for long periods in the
wild.
geofri: is it nessasary to provide UVB lighing for indoor
captives? and what about pebbles/small stones, for digestion?
CDieter: No on the UVB, if you want to use it thats fine but
it certainly is not necessary. I have never used it. I use pebbles
in my enclosures. They will ingest them from time to time. Some people
in the field prefer sand for their own reasons.
goini04: Chris, do you feel that an alligator having to stay
in water through the majority of a cold winter in order to stay warm
(ex. The Colorado gator farm and their Hot spring usage) has any negative
health effects on the animals?
CDieter: Hard to say, I have my doubts that it wouldbe harmful.
Going there is on my list of places to research in the near future
so let's put that one on a wait and see list.
PHFaust: And I get final question. I notice this evening and
on your site you mention mazuri as a staple diet componant. I plan
on looking at this for future use, but it caught my eye when you mentioned
it was better than offering the fish. was this nile specific or across
board. I run a rescue and regularly have american alligators here
for a short time and a dried storable diet would be LOVELY rather
than running to the fish market every time. Other than ease is there
another plus to Mazuri?
CDieter: Mazuri is far superior to a fish diet. The mazuri
diet is nutritionally complete. Most crocodilians raised on fish tend
to be rather 'soft' looking compared to animals raised on red meat/poultry.
This is across the board.
CDieter: You would enjoy the mazuri
goini04: Be prepared for LOTS of water changes though!
geofri: I talked with somone today, who keeps gators, and
he said you need a UVB light or they will get MBD, do you think he
was just playing it safe? of trying to sell me a light?
CDieter: He's wrong. Alligator farms often raise hatchlings
in complete darkness to reduce stress. I have never used UVB and your
welcome to have a look at my animals.
geofri: thanks so much! hope to talk with you again
CDieter: anytime
PHFaust: On behalf of Kingsnake.com, Jeff B, and myself, I
want to take a moment to thank Chris for being part of our chat week.
Chris thanks for taking the time out to chat with us on crocodilians.
CDieter: No problem, I enjoyed the chat.
PHAlex: Thank you Chris!
CDieter: Good night room!
