Blood Python Panel
Kara Glasgow, Ryan Norris, Rich Crowley
February 8, 2008

PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at kingsnake.com, I'm very pleased to welcome Kara Glasgow, Rich Crowley and Ryan Norris to our Ninth Annual Chat Week.

KLG: yaaaaay!!!!!

PHFaust: For those of us who had the pleasure of watching the talk at Tinley NARBC, we had the joy of expeirencing Kara, Rich and Ryan's Blood Python knowledge. Blood pythons of all species are slowly growing in popularity, altho they will never be the next ball pythons, they are gaining fans all through the hobby. Bloods still have a bad reputation retained from the days of adult wild caughts. They are short, stocky snakes with a strong will and truly a unique python.

PHFaust: Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls I present the lovely Kara Glasgow, Rich Crowley and Ryan Norris..

KLG: Wheeeeeeeee!

KLG: good evening everyone!

KLG: Hi Rich & Ryan! Nice to see everyone!

Rich Crowley: Hello gorgeous

KLG: And JB & Cindy & Nick & JimG!

Rich Crowley: You too kara

jeffb: Which one of you breeds the best Bloods

Rich Crowley: all of us.

KLG: YAN NORRIS!

RyanNorris_nr: Kara Of course

KLG: AND ME AND RICH!

KLG: Although Rich only has breedable STP's right now.

Rich Crowley: Shhh.

PHFaust: AS always big papa causing problems!

KLG: Just for the uninitiated, STP will mean Short tailed pythons!

KLG: BSTP is Borneo Short-tail

KLG: SSTP is Sumatran short tail (aka black bloods).

Rich Crowley: Blood is python brongersmai

KLG: I have animals from both Ryan and Rich that are just KILLER, and I am honored to be among such wonderful folks.

dragon_sanctuary: Thank you. Bloods are my favorite snakes. I've never kept one. How do their care requirements differ from, say, ball pythons?

Rich Crowley: Wow! blood vs ball.

KLG: Dragon - bloods require more "fine tuning" they are not as forgiving of husbandry mistakes.

Rich Crowley: blood after you graduate ball :)

RyanNorris_nr: A lot more interactive, you can interact with bloods more than the balls

KLG: But fortunately they do well with "keep it simple"

KLG: Ambient 80 to 82

Rich Crowley: SSTP SBTP also

KLG: basking (if necessary) 88 degrees

KLG: They have TONS of personality, just oodles.

KLG: paper substrate, 65% RH

KLG: 4' cages for adults

KLG: shoeboxes & sweater boxes for babies & raise ups.

KLG: Small meals, they have slow metabolisms.

KLG: (I'll shut up now)

Rich Crowley: dont overfeed, be patient and you get big babies

RyanNorris_nr: I keep all my adults in VE175 tubs

Rich Crowley: sweet sweet babies at 4.5-6ft

KLG: six-foot bloods & STPs are AWESOME

dragon_sanctuary: Thank you all! You should write a book, hehe.

Rich Crowley: They grow over their life so be patient.

KLG: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/Bloods16855/DSC01390-1.jpg

KLG: Those are Ryans cages

Rich Crowley: Nice cages for nice STP

PHFaust: Yeah kara write a book after you edit another of kevins!

KLG: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/Bloods16855/DSC01390-1.jpg

KLG: Rich's cage setup

KLG: http://bloodpythons.com/forumpics/lots/cages1.jpg

KLG: My wall

Rich Crowley: need audio book with music from kev?

KLG: Bloods like country music, not Metal.

KLG: Right Ryan.

RyanNorris_nr: Thanks for being so prepared kara!

RyanNorris_nr: Definately love country

KLG: LOL...I have bloodpythons.com open on another screen so I can pull pics as necessary.

RyanNorris_nr: Much better than metal

Rich Crowley: explains my rough borneo lovers

Lurker_nr: Hey Ryan it's John, I purchased those giant 7 and 8ft malaysians from you awhile back. Anyways...are your malaysians from her line breeding this season? Dieing to get back into bloods but I'm very picky!

KLG: I WANT TO SEE AN 8' blood! please!

Lurker_nr: one min let me get the pics

KLG: that would just rule.

Rich Crowley: YES

RyanNorris_nr: This season is off and next season will we will be breeding again. Ill be sure to get in touch with you right away

Lurker_nr: thanks...how are those banka's looking?

RyanNorris_nr: Looking promising for this season...

Lurker_nr: Kara the pics you requested: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/JLExotics/Blood%20Pythons/DSC00531.jpg

Lurker_nr: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/JLExotics/Blood%20Pythons/GiantGravidMalaysianBlood.jpg

Lurker_nr: I used the String Method...she was huge and Ryan I'm sure will also adhear to that. Then again she didn't sit still while I measured her so it was more of a guess but shouldn't have been to far off, she was over 6ft easy....ok enough butting in ...

KLG: Here is a VERIFIED 6' Borneo: http://bloodpythons.com/forumpics/beefcake2.jpg

dragon_sanctuary: What are your websites?

KLG: bloodpythons.com (and newenglandreptile.com)

Rich Crowley: www.richcrowleyreptiles.com

dragon_sanctuary: Thank you.

Rich Crowley: Lots of info for everyone on both sites

KLG: Rich's new site rules!

RyanNorris_nr: No website here yet!

KLG: I have to hurry up & finish mine out (how long have I been saying that?!?!?!?!)

Rich Crowley: in progress...for next five years!

KLG: LOL!!!!

Rich Crowley: Yes, hurry up.

RyanNorris_nr: Ill just refer everyone to bloodpythons.com

KLG: must finish NERD (400 pages & counting), then I can finish bloodpythons

Rich Crowley: Need availability page, kara, 400?

KLG: YES! This weekend will be done. I took TONS of pics today.

JimG: To any of you who might know: As they said in the beginning, Bloods are slowly becoming more popular, yet recently I noticed that Pro Exotics has stopped working with them. Does anyone know why they stopped? They seemed so passionate about them.

Rich Crowley: kara, klg, hun?

KLG: Jim, I bought a bunch of their snakes. Chad felt that bloods were never going to reach the popularity of balls (Thank goodness)

Rich Crowley: They are in good hands

KLG: and I think they were just trying to focus their efforts on other projects - i.e. monitors, ball pythons, etc.

RyanNorris_nr: Personal preference, blood can take a lot of respect. IF you work with too many species, you can sometimes loose sight of your goal.

KLG: Absolutely!

Rich Crowley: stp are not beg like ball, take some "experience", less forgiving

KLG: They're not for everyone, which is great. Those who get it get it.

Rich Crowley: but very rewarding

KLG: Those who don't, keep ball pythons. Like my boyfriend. ;) - (just kidding, he loves bloods too)

Rich Crowley: im telling

Rich Crowley: kev luvs it all?

PHFaust: Im so telling... Why is it that you dont see them becoming the next ball?

KLG: Because they require a bit more finesse,

Rich Crowley: size and sensitve to beginner error

KLG: babies can be snappy, and they do get quite a bit bigger.

Rich Crowley: education is required

KLG: There is a learning curve.

Rich Crowley: investment in caging (some)

RyanNorris_nr: Size would be biggest thing, and husbandry is a bit of a challlenge

Rich Crowley: especially if young are not established

RyanNorris_nr: A lot of ball breeders use one male to many females. You cant do that with bloods, you need more males period

KLG: True. And lots of people don't like to keep extra males

Rich Crowley: no cheating to breed

KLG: Females are three-year snakes, period.

Rich Crowley: 1-1 or 1-2 tops

Rich Crowley: for males to females

KLG: None of this "raise them up in 18 months" crap. It doesn't work.

Rich Crowley: definitely

KLG: They are more like retics in that regard.

Rich Crowley: females can be picky with their males

KLG: Even males need a solid year and a half, usually.

Rich Crowley: some males just don't cut it

KLG: And males can be picky with their females, too!

Rich Crowley: YES! My biggest is a 6ft sarawak, straight line

KLG: But did we mention they are GORGEOUS? http://bloodpythons.com/forumpics/26aug05rolo1.jpg

JimG: Bloods seem so variable in color and patterns, more than any other snake I can think of. How predictable are the results of breedings? How hard is it to get the look you’re after?

KLG: Jim, I think selective breeding is KEY!

Rich Crowley: I agree

KLG: Once you've looked at a few HUNDRED bloods, you get an idea of what you're looking for.

RyanNorris_nr: I feel pattern is a lot easier to breed than color, but thru selective breeding you can also get the color down too

KLG: And what matches up. Temperament is also genetic.

Rich Crowley: Yes, handle early and most settledown very nicely, patience is key

RyanNorris_nr: I have WC bankas that are just evil and have breed two years in a row where the CBB babies are just sweet as kittens

KLG: Jim, I think it's just a matter of working with them enough to get a feel for what you like,

Rich Crowley: environment helps

KLG: and match up similar animals, if possible.

Rich Crowley: must be the country music, ryan.

KLG: there is some trial and error involved.

KLG: But bloods right now are where ball pythons were 5 years ago.

RyanNorris_nr: Country music does it for me and my snakes

KLG: We're on the edge of some really, really cool stuff.

KLG: DITTO RYAN! Country is where it's at! And that is the biggest secret to keeping bloods.

KLG: Real quick - who all here has bloods/STPs? Raise your hand?

PHFaust: ME

Rich Crowley: numbers are still going to be low for a while

Rich Crowley: me

KLG: me

RyanNorris_nr: me

RyanNorris_nr: only a few

KLG: (LOL)

Lurker_nr: mine died in a fire

KLG: yeah, but your few are killer. ;)

KLG: come on folks, where's the love?

PHLdyPayne: I have ball pythons, only

Rich Crowley: sorry about Lurker

PHLdyPayne: in the short tail python area anyway

KLG: That's ok..nobody is perfect. Can I interject an IMPORTANT side note?

dragon_sanctuary: I don't have one yet but I have kept several species of snake and I really, REALLY want a blood.

PHFaust: Sure!

KLG: Has everyone submitted their comments on the boa/python ban? http://www.pethobbyist.com/sitenews/index.php?/archives/202-Feds-Move-To-Ban-Pythons-Boas.html

PHLdyPayne: the bloods do fascinate me though...just not sure if I am ready for them though...they kind of sit on the max python allowed area.

KLG: This is some SERIOUS doo-doo folks, it could REALLY impact our hobby in a negative way.
Rich Crowley: Doing a formal response with suggestiions.

PHFaust: Im sure the legislation is a major concern for all keepers. We do have a panel chat scheduled on Friday February 28 at 10 pm ET to discuss the proposed ban. For those who are confused as to what we are refering to please check out the blog at http://www.pethobbyist.com/sitenews/index.php?/archives/202-Feds-Move-To-Ban-Pythons-Boas.html

Lurker_nr: It would force many to start breeding lizards again.

Rich Crowley: I deal with regs and do this often

Auballagh: Yep! I even made a post in the general snake section on how to make an 'official' comment....

Rich Crowley: Respond only to what is proposed.

dragon_sanctuary: I'm also preparing a formal letter with suggestions.

Rich Crowley: If you want STP's respond to the ban!

KLG: We need to stay on top of this folks...if we give them an inch, they WILL take a mile.

Rich Crowley: Don't just insult, be professional

PHLdyPayne: that ban is very unfair for exotic keepers, both hobbyist and business

Rich Crowley: agreed

KLG: Ok, good.

Lurker_nr: many business will be no longer...

KLG: glad we at least touched on that.

Auballagh: State of FL problem - NOT a National one....

Lurker_nr: What do you all think of the Tiger bloods that bushmaster has been breeding? I haven't seen any produced that look like the original tiger. I do see the pink heads and weird pattern on some of the offspring but many are so far off from that amazing looking female he's got.

KLG: I (personally) think that may be something that is also better accomplished through selective breeding.

Rich Crowley: Keith mcpeek working with these also?

KLG: I have several offspring from the Tiger on Kam's site...

Lurker_nr: Ben seigel also sold a pair that he got from kamuran...I was a bit late in purchasing them : (

KLG: and some are better than others...

Lurker_nr: ah...any pics kara?

Rich Crowley: Pattern will improve with selective breeding

KLG: Lurker - not online...haven't loaded them yet. Sorry.

Lurker_nr: I like natural as far as color but pattern morphs are my favorite

KLG: I think the "Tiger" trait is still a mystery to some extent.

RyanNorris_nr: Tigers are a big question right now... Time needs to prove it out yet...

KLG: very well said Ryan!

RyanNorris_nr: Kara we share the same brain I think

Lurker_nr: lol

KLG: LOL!!! I think so too Ryan! Great minds & all that. Of course, they say crazy ones run in packs, too.
Rich Crowley: true....

KLG: Didn't want it to get lost.

dragon_sanctuary: Do you have any advice in reguards to color/temperment bloodlines for someone who just wants one as a pet and not a breeder?

Rich Crowley: Get captive bred, let the breeder know you are looking for a nice pet.

RyanNorris_nr: I agree with Rich and buy at a show where you can handle the snake first.

KLG: CBB, selectively bred all the way.

Rich Crowley: the shows are good. chance to ask questions

KLG: shows can be good, but make sure the breeder is a DEDICATED blood breeder.

Rich Crowley: see how the breeder handles the animals

KLG: There are a LOT of wholesalers at shows who try to pass off CH as CBB.

Rich Crowley: Should feel comfortable and show pics of eggs, ask for proof, farmed does not mean CB in my book.

KLG: I am working on pedigrees for my bloods, just for the sake of having records.

RyanNorris_nr: Most of the dedicated blood python breeders can be found on forums or places where they are active in the community... That is a good way to find someone who is active with bloods and not a wholesaler

KLG: Profiles of the parents, with pictures, temperament ratings, etc.

dragon_sanctuary: Thanks you guys. I'll be contacting you when I'm ready to invest in one for sure.

Rich Crowley: Ask for lineage or parent pics

KLG: Blood folks tend to congregate together. We're kind of a tight-knit group, but also laid back & open to new folks!

Rich Crowley: No infighting either, we are for the animals.

KLG: Save the drama fo yo mama!!!!

KLG: Thankfully!

Rich Crowley: or monitor forums

Lurker_nr: I gotta ask....What are your secrets to picking out animals that will turn out red...and I mean red. I'm picky and orange/yellow animals won't end up staying. Is it all just a gamble or is there certain things you look for?

KLG: ROFLMAO @ rich

KLG: Um...it wouldn't be a secret if I told you.

Lurker_nr: haha

Rich Crowley: lol

KLG: I selectively breed for it. Simple!

RyanNorris_nr: Experience when you go thru 300 babies, you know what you are looking for

KLG: That way I know what I'm gonna get. Ditto that RN... But it takes a LOT of raising up ugly snakes to figure out the few good ones!

Rich Crowley: I can be picky

Lurker_nr: don't have tons of space so I have to be picky

KLG: Ok...maybe not UGLY, but just not what I would keep.

PHFaust: Ill take the ugly

KLG: Lurker, I only have 1 room, so I'm picky too...

Lurker_nr: lol

KLG: Faust - your namesake is being a SLUT tonight!

Lurker_nr: your room is much larger then my room LOL

KLG: breedingbreedingbreedingbreedingbreeding!

PHFaust: WOO HOO Make mama a baby!@

KLG: Dern skippy!

Rich Crowley: gals are bad

Lurker_nr: lol

Rich Crowley: I luv that about u

KLG: Lurker - I think it just takes a lot of raising up snakes to develop a keen eye for red stuff.
dragon_sanctuary: lol LOL rich...sip sip

Auballagh: Black Bloods = smaller in size Blood Python? Plus, general temperment in comparison with Red types?

Rich Crowley: disagree

KLG: Blacks - I have a 5.5' female, she is heeeeyooooge but a doll face

RyanNorris_nr: in general blacks do stay smaller. But that is IN GENERAL

Rich Crowley: red, black borneo all can be nice

KLG: temperament is individual, they can all be great, they can all suck

Rich Crowley: size is based on health also

RyanNorris_nr: Temperment is NO difference between borneos, blacks and reds! All same temperment.

KLG: Black-blacks are bigger than yellow-head blacks. Ditto ryan

Rich Crowley: nice, but great feeding responses!

KLG: I have a couple of Borneos that would happily rip your face off, and reds that are perfect kittens.

dragon_sanctuary: Are you guys going to be at any of the west coast herp shows this year?

RyanNorris_nr: Certain Chrome Headed blacks can get huge.. ?

Rich Crowley: Powerful animals in smaller packages

KLG: I'm not...

Rich Crowley: not me

KLG: I think Tinley Park is our only scheduled show for this year.

Rich Crowley: yahhhh!

KLG: Although we may do VA, and Ryan & I will be participating in the blood python panel @ Daytona. (but I'm not setting up)

RyanNorris_nr: I might be doing anaheim.... with a table

Lurker_nr: I may have to actually make it to daytona then this yr :-)

dragon_sanctuary: And Ryan, hehe.

KLG: Oooh! Really Ryno? I may fly out if you're doing that show...

RyanNorris_nr: I will also be with Kara at Daytona

Rich Crowley: dont sell until I get a chance to see what you have :)

Rich Crowley: blood panel at daytona?

PHFaust: Yes Rich. Friday Night Blood Python panel...

Lurker_nr: it's nice to see that the blood python people are pulling together kind of like the chondro people have done...

Lurker_nr: really is a selective market....it's really grown tho...sorry more of a rant lol

Rich Crowley: sorry klg

KLG: Lurker....we're really fortunate...

Rich Crowley: agree with kara.

KLG: There are some FABULOUS folks working with bloods these days. I am so honored to have Rich & Ryan as friends/peers/colleagues.

Rich Crowley: :)

KLG: I personally think - as cliche as this sounds - that bloods are all about "keeping it real." No drama, just enjoy your snakes and let them teach you.

Rich Crowley: set the tone early.

RyanNorris_nr: I appreciate it, you are such a sweetheart

KLG: I just call it like I see it.

Rich Crowley: we dictate how the animals are viewed, keep them number uno.

Auballagh: Black Blood 'Chrome Heads' = same as Yellow? Just slightly different color trait, correct? (Sorry 'bout all the B/B q's, got a line on a proven, breeding pair o' Blacks, and.......)

KLG: Same species, different "race", so to speak.

RyanNorris_nr: Exactly right Kara

Rich Crowley: yellow and chrome different localities?

KLG: Yes

Auballagh: hmmmm..... didn't know that about the yellow vs. chrome head black - thanks!

Rich Crowley: Maybe a curtus for me in the future. Tough to move from my borneos

KLG: Yellows are smaller, blacks are from higHer elevations.

RyanNorris_nr: I have bred two chromes heads togethers and two small black head and never got a yellow.

RyanNorris_nr: But I have bred yellow heads and produced yellow heads and blackheads
KLG: yellows probably deserve subspecific status, as do Sarawak BSTP's

Rich Crowley: more data needed on all

KLG: Ryan...was your founding stock WC?

RyanNorris_nr: chromeheads were yes

KLG: right on.

dragon_sanctuary: What's the diffrence between Borneos and Sumatrans beside locality? Are they both still P. curtus?

Rich Crowley: NO!

KLG: Blacks are the ONLY p curtus

Rich Crowley: P breitensteini = borneo

KLG: they are separate species

Rich Crowley: ancestors are related, going back a few hundred thousand yers

dragon_sanctuary: And the reds?

KLG: reds = Python brongersmai

Rich Crowley: dfferent than curuts and breits

KLG: Sumatran STP (blacks) = Python curtus

Rich Crowley: sorry bad spelling

KLG: Borneos/Sarawaks = Python breitensteini

Rich Crowley: sarawaks question subspecies status

dragon_sanctuary: Lol it's cool, and ty for the info. It's kind of hard to find.

Rich Crowley: I think so, sarawaks high remote location, get dark, with gold color and different scales, dna so far doesnt differentiat sarawaks enough, bulkier than borneos.wicked cool in my book

Rich Crowley: big slugs

Lurker_nr: As far as the Banka's that came in and haven't come in since.....Are the babies turning out as nice as the Brick red animals that were imported? OR are the like the canary chondros and many go green so to speak?

KLG: http://bloodpythons.com/forumpics/comparison.jpg

Rich Crowley: ryan/kara? bangka?

RyanNorris_nr: So far my animals are 2.5 years CB and so far they look like they will remain brick red like adults

KLG: There is a head shot comparison of the 3 species. The Bangkas are great...VERY red, but also overhyped at first. They are NICE red bloods, period, the end.

Lurker_nr: do I have a better chance at getting red animals out of Bangka's or malaysians?

KLG: Neither. You have a better chance of getting red animals out of red animals

Lurker_nr: lol u kill me

KLG: I have red Malays & yellow Malays.

Rich Crowley: even reds produce yellow/brown

KLG: Awesome Bangkas and ugly bangkas. It is VERY dependent upon parent stock! PERIOD!

RyanNorris_nr: Bangkas seem to be smaller brong..

KLG: truetruetruetruetrue

Lurker_nr: <<<needs to get with Ryan again lol...expect an e-mail my friend

Rich Crowley: red headed bloods are irish.... short and sweet

KLG: if you want red, get off the locality thing. AND UPPITY, RC@

RyanNorris_nr: Ill be waiting...

Rich Crowley: go with selective breeding for color

KLG: Ok...comparison pic again, Borneo, black & then red. http://bloodpythons.com/forumpics/comparison.jpg
dragon_sanctuary: Which of the different blood species would you recommend as a pet over the others? Does it really matter as long as the animal is CBB?

RyanNorris_nr: It doesnt make a difference other than captive bred. the rest personal preference

KLG: I would recommend one of each so you can form your own opinion.

Rich Crowley: cbb is most important

dragon_sanctuary: XD Thank you.

Rich Crowley: go wiht a male for size

KLG: And get REALLY smoking examples of each, GIRLS most importantly, so you can sell the ones you don't like to ME after you've raised them up. ;)

Rich Crowley: funny

dragon_sanctuary: lol!

Rich Crowley: I like them bigger so I want the girls

KLG: (just kidding)

Rich Crowley: just dont tell my wife

PHFaust: Ill just raise up all the males

Rich Crowley: our luv children

KLG: Cin, keep your fingers crossed for Faust babies!!!!!!! Otherwise she's gonna be my next pair of boots.

Rich Crowley: what about rolo

KLG: (jk) LOL...he rules. visiting the ladies! shhhhhhhhhh

Rich Crowley: I want babies from rolo

KLG: (don't jinx him!) me tooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Rich Crowley: tell him to get th job done! He had enough fun, tell him to work!

KLG: He's been told. My pimp hand is LARGE!

Rich Crowley: LOL

Auballagh: Forget the Country music - you folks need some Barry White piped into those enclosures! (No Q_

Rich Crowley: Metal for me. Heavier the better (j/k)

Lurker_nr: are w.c. bloods amazingly hard to breed? VPI has some amazing animals in their galleries but you never see anything being bred or on the market...

PHFaust: And that would would explain why my snakes aint right

KLG: NO!

Lurker_nr: BTW ryan e-mail sent :-)

KLG: they are NOT hard to breed if you have the right formula.

Rich Crowley: Tracy just cant part with them

KLG: Males are RAPISTS! But you have to have the right pairs.

Lurker_nr: why haven't any of those animals popped up? some of the best I've ever seen as far as pics

KLG: Cause you'd keep em, too!

Lurker_nr: are they not proving out?

KLG: Oh, they're out there, it's just not talked about.

Rich Crowley: I never sell the nice ones

RyanNorris_nr: They can be..... A lot of breeders are keeping what they are producing right now...

KLG: You know, the numbers game.

Lurker_nr: ahhhh...I'm not in the circle...darnit!

KLG: No...but I'm leery of some of the things happening with blood python morphs right now.

Lurker_nr: so many breeders are so hush hush...it kills me!

Rich Crowley: hyrbids messing things up

KLG: That too!

Lurker_nr: not big on hybrids myself

Rich Crowley: keep it pure!

PHFaust: IS there a lot of hybrids with bloods?

KLG: They're a project I won't touch, cause there are more out in the public than what's being told.

KLG: Cin...yeah, if you're not careful.

Rich Crowley: cheating b$$$$$$$$ds

KLG: Red = red, black = black, borneo = borneo in my books.
RyanNorris_nr: Excactly!

Rich Crowley: borneos are the only ones from borneo!!!!!!!!!!!

KLG: blood crosses suck! LOL!

Rich Crowley: Yes they do

Lurker_nr: hehe borneo bat eatters are SWEET tho lol same with those jungle retics...sorry for getting off topic

KLG: Or, blood crosses suck.

Rich Crowley: ugley too

KLG: Thx Lurker! Have you seen the Platty Jungles?

Lurker_nr: no!!!

PHLdyPayne: bloods were hybridized with ball pythons I think.

Lurker_nr: jungles are my fav....I'd own one for a pet and never breed it...one day!!! not willing to spend the mula on em

PHFaust: We still have the Blood Mafia available for a bit, does anyone have any other questions?

NickRBReptiles: super ball

Rich Crowley: super balls ----super lame

Rich Crowley: IMPORTANT: FEED INSIDE CAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KLG: http://www.newenglandreptile.com/nerd/images/stories/retics/jungleplat/jungleplat7.jpg

KLG: Super balls suck super balls!

RiseAbove: right on Rich

KLG: Mafia????

PHLdyPayne: I am not crazy about hybrids either..never could see a good reason for it...

jparker1167: same here

PHFaust: Dunno, ask rich! It's what he calls ya'all

KLG: I like EXTREME hybrids...but other hybrids can suck.

Rich Crowley: carpondros are neat....

KLG: Fuhgittaboutit.

Lurker_nr: ah yes I remember those now kara....DROOL!!!!!!! really not big on hybrids but the burm/retic
hybrids got me...they would be purely pets...

KLG: D-raggin'

Auballagh: Thanks 'Blood Mafia' - GREAT Discussion!!

Lurker_nr: I'm considering breeding a ceylonese python with a selayer golden retic just because I'd like to create my own bat eatters...lol save the mula

RyanNorris_nr: Big coutnry why ya so quiet?

KLG: WE ARE NOT THE MAFIA!

PHLdyPayne: hard enough to keep track of the morphs..hybrids just makes it more confusing ;)

dragon_sanctuary: Lol ty Faust. I just wanted to say thinks you guys, and I agree with Rich on music preferences; the heavier, the better \m/ (no Q)

Lurker_nr: 1 time thing

KLG: WE ARE THE TRIFECTA!

Rich Crowley: Where do we go from here with bloods?

KLG: dragon - you'd love kev's stuff

Rich Crowley: What are you all going to do about it?

Lurker_nr: Country here!

KLG: Crazy, duh?

bigcountry1: the bloodking has just entered the room

Rich Crowley: BC is in the house

KLG: Where? I missed him.

Rich Crowley: how are the walnutxsarawaks doing?

RyanNorris_nr: I thought you were hulkamania?

NickRBReptiles: glad you could join us BC

jparker1167: do you go to any reptiles shows ?

PHLdyPayne: I have to go with the heavier the better in the music department...country makes me rather..crazy..not as bad as the chipmunks. Listening to the chipmunks will make me go postal.

dragon_sanctuary: I concur payne, lol.

Rich Crowley: pituophis love chipmunks

Lurker_nr: no blue grass...I like the latest country

bigcountry1: The hamburg show is off the hook

RyanNorris_nr: Im usually with animal plastics

PHFaust: Lets get back into a queue mode gang! Who has a blood python related question

Lurker_nr: what's it gonna take for me to get that blood on your web site lol....kara

Rich Crowley: whose?

KLG: Not even remotely an option!

Rich Crowley: Rolo?

Rich Crowley: Me first

KLG: LOL...no, the other thing.

Lurker_nr: haha

KLG: Sorry!

Lurker_nr: seems like only the big guys get the nice stuff

KLG: I'm not a big guy.

Rich Crowley: Not true

Lurker_nr: so hard for the little guys to put together a top quality collection

Rich Crowley: work at it.

Lurker_nr: you are part of NERD yes you are BIG in a small package : P

KLG: I'm not REMOTELY a big guy. No, my other half is NERD. My bloods are a separate thingy. Just FYI. :)

Lurker_nr: still...lol

KLG: LOL Lurker...only if you're talkin' bout my boobs!

RyanNorris_nr: I have seen kara and she is definately not a guy!@!!!!

KLG: big thing, small package.

Lurker_nr: hahaha gotta love women, oh I know she's not a guy...I was just being general

jparker1167: whats your favorite blood

KLG: ALL OF THEM Jparker, that is why it is ESSENTIAL to have like, eleventymillion bloodpythons! cause they are all FABULOUS!

PHFaust: Ok gang, we are going to go off protocol, and close the official portion of the chat! Lets open the room for everyone...

PHLdyPayne: heh

dragon_sanctuary: XD

Lurker_nr: Kara you crack me up...

PHSnow: ...

KLG: Yay...open room!

PHFaust: And Kara How many espressos today my dear?

KLG: Me?

bigcountry1: my blood python will not poop

KLG: NONE!

PHFaust: yes

PHLia: Oh no..open room..what shall I do

PHLia: But say I got eggies today :)

KLG: But I did a ton of deadlifts this morning

dragon_sanctuary: WB Rich

Rich Crowley: oops, lost my connection

PHLdyPayne: know any decent Canadian breeders of bloods?

Lurker_nr: one of these days I'll have to swing by Nerd....probably have a heart attack but it'll be a good one

KLG: No, but I export Payne,

KLG: Lurker...swing by...aren't you in FL?

RyanNorris_nr: Hulkamania, was hoping for some better questions that that!

PHLdyPayne: sure I have seen some at the local reptile show..juust can't remember for sure....

PHLia: Me too John..but I wont be the bhb employee swap when it happens lol

RiseAbove: minor detail

PHLia: I do enough work lol

Lurker_nr: I think it'd be worth the trip....you have some amazing animals....I'd have to leave the CC's at
home...that platty jungle would HAVE to come with me if I didn't

bigcountry1: blood cell, i have some questions for you, but they are best suited over the phone

Rich Crowley: come on BC

KLG: Bring it on BC

RyanNorris_nr: heh

Rich Crowley: BCBCBCBCBCBCBCBC

RyanNorris_nr: those type of calls are only for kara

Lurker_nr: LOL

PHLdyPayne: BC: ask here, you wn't have to worry about long distance charges ;)

Rich Crowley: I'm jealous

KLG: Two snaps in a Z formation.

KLG: LOL!..that IS family.

Rich Crowley: back to STP

KLG: the BLOOD family.

dragon_sanctuary: lol

Rich Crowley: For the public.....ask questions about where animals came from

jparker1167: rich do you only work with bloods

Rich Crowley: No. LOTS of stuff

Rich Crowley: Did rescue for 10 yrs

Rich Crowley: some things never leave

jparker1167: nice

Rich Crowley: Really cool give aways

bigcountry1: OK, I have a real question. everyone says that malaysians are the reddest animals, buuuuuut, Ihave some super red sumutrans. now is the red malaysian thing the normal and i have just some of the best sumutrans? Or is it hit and miss w/ both locales?

Rich Crowley: I have lots of errr small balls

KLG: Hit or miss w/both locales.

Rich Crowley: Shouldn't matter on sumatra vs malaysian

KLG: Just like there are pretty Borneos and fugly borneos

KLG: and pretty blacks and fugly blacks.

Rich Crowley: absolutely. Sometimes things just hatch out, no planning could prepare you for

bigcountry1: Rich that is what my parents said

PHLdyPayne: I gather the 'red' bloods are the most in demand?

Rich Crowley: LOL

Rich Crowley: I have a great sable I love, nice brown, use to be mean as heck, nice puppy just needed tlc

jparker1167: where ya from rich

bigcountry1: Rich, how dark is the darkest borneo you have?

KLG: I think they are ALL in demand.

Rich Crowley: Chi town, Illinois

Rich Crowley: darkest aside from sarawak?

NickRBReptiles: Are we going to know what the deal w lattes and ultras is this year?

bigcountry1: Do you have a pic or anything? I have a "dark" female

PHLdyPayne: the black heads look rather striking... though the reds are cool too...but I have seen pics of nice yellows/oranges and that tan/rich brown sienna brown

KLG: Lattes = ultras like gray = the new black

Lurker_nr: Kara you into retics at all?

Rich Crowley: latte/ultra same thing

jparker1167: Have you guys talked about the ban tonight

KLG: The same thing

KLG: Lurker, we have some AMAZING stuff happening here, retic wise, but I will leave that for kevin's chat later this month.

NickRBReptiles: ghost part of that too?

PHFaust: Im sure the legislation is a major concern for all keepers. We do have a panel chat scheduled on Friday February 28 at 10 pm ET to discuss the proposed ban. For those who are confused as to what we are refering to please check out the blog at http://www.pethobbyist.com/sitenews/index.php?/archives/202-Feds-Move-To-Ban-Pythons-Boas.html

Lurker_nr: I can't afford that AMAZING stuff LOL

Rich Crowley: BC . send you an updated photo of dad. Dark

KLG: Ghost/Latte/UB/Sexy. I think they are all alleles at the very least, if not the same gene.

Lurker_nr: I am however getting a pair of c.b.b. selayer golden retics due to hatch mid march :-)

Rich Crowley: still trying to do the patternless borneo

NickRBReptiles: thanks guys

Rich Crowley: oops did i admit that

RyanNorris_nr: I feel the same way as kara...

Lurker_nr: hope I can make Kevin's retic chat...

KLG: Trying to do the blackhead pat'less red hear RC

RyanNorris_nr: On the ghost/latte/UB

KLG: joint proj with Jeff C.

PHLdyPayne: but rich, the pattern is cool..why get rid of it?

KLG: Ryno - yes?

Rich Crowley: color

RyanNorris_nr: I do feel there has been people breeding before others and people feel that some are better because they have been bred more than once

herpkid3D_nr: he has a nice red tint to him

PHLdyPayne: but just a solid color... not as exciting as pattern and color, like in ball pythons, about 5 ways to make a white ball python....kind of feel like drawing on them to break up the white ;)

PHLdyPayne: that and I can't see them on the white paper towel LOL

Rich Crowley: permanent marker works well, or finger paint

PHLdyPayne: not that i actauly have a white ball python, but I do have a leucistic texas rat snake.

PHSnow: dry erase would be more fun, change the pattern each week

Lurker_nr: balls or bloods....uummmmm...BLOODS!!!

KLG: There's a LOT to be determined with the Ultra thingie.

KLG: (yikes)

PHLdyPayne: oh, are bloods ever finicky about eating?

KLG: RARELY!

Rich Crowley: YES some

bigcountry1: PHLdyPayne, If they are sick!

PHFaust: OH hell yeah

KLG: but not like other speceis.

PHFaust: I have one that is a PITA of a feeder

Rich Crowley: Depends. I have some holdouts

KLG: They CAN be, but it's the exception, not the rule.

Rich Crowley: I give them all to cindy

KLG: I have some holdouts too, but their clutchmates eat like gangbusters.

bigcountry1: I have gotten several animals that were sold to me as live only feeders, but after a few months they about take my hand off going after f/t

PHLdyPayne: thinking more of bloods with good husbandry... I have ball pythons that are very finicky..and are housed as they should with good hides etc... but still just eat when they feel like it... no matter what is offered

RyanNorris_nr: Next year there will be a breeder that is going to throw some leopards in the mix with the lattes/ub

Rich Crowley: Once the swtich over watch out

bigcountry1: I still feed live occasionally

PHSnow: Did yours ever get bred faust?

PHFaust: Me? I dont breed, anything.

Rich Crowley: She raising up for me

PHSnow: Didn't your girl get sent away to mate

Rich Crowley: It's our love child

PHFaust: Rich is just gonna set me up with his males...he is my bloody man

KLG: I mostly feed PK , live when necessary...works great.

Rich Crowley: Can't sell, so I give away LOL

Rich Crowley: FT all the way for me

PHLdyPayne: I have one female ball python, eat reguarly frozen thawed, then about 6 months before I wanted to start breeding her, she decided she no longer wanted to eat frozen thawed, then no longer wanted to eat rats, nor mice, or on days of the week that ended with 'day.' Now she will sometimes take live, sometimes take frozen thawed, sometimes pre killed.. sometimes mice, sometimes rats... sigh

PHFaust: my female is too small to breed

bigcountry1: I have given up on my ball pythons and f/t, so i just feed them live

Rich Crowley: Dont trust live

PHFaust: What is it, 3 years and 12 lbs minimum breeding size?

KLG: 3 yrs, 12 lbs...good ROT.

PHLdyPayne: I don't like feeding live..after weaned rat size

bigcountry1: Faust, I hear it's 3 years and whatever size they may be

Rich Crowley: the blood mafia says yes

PHSnow: And here i'm debating breeding corns this year :E

Rich Crowley: :)

PHFaust: lol

bigcountry1: I have a 3 year 4' rule

jparker1167: for what big

PHFaust: Is that true on both males and female?>

KLG: No.

Rich Crowley: no

KLG: I have males that breed @ 18 mo.

PHLdyPayne: Fortunately most of my animals except two adults balllpythons and two yearling cative hatched, are eating frozen thawed...thuogh slowling getting the captive hatch onto fresh killed

Rich Crowley: 18 -24 months for males, minimum, older is better

KLG: and a skinny 3'

KLG: older IS better, but horny young boys are willing, regardless of species.

Rich Crowley: No comment

PHSnow: lol

bigcountry1: kara, you are takin me back to my jr. high school days

KLG: just sayin'!

PHLdyPayne: I need to thing my colletion before I add more species..but blooods may enter my collection... probably wait till after I get rid of the rest of my geckos, and a few snakes i really don't have any need of..

Lurker_nr: haha...

bigcountry1: Payne what kind of geckoes are you keeping?

jparker1167: i wouldnt mind having a boreno again

PHFaust: Bloods are a different ball game from the balls...

Rich Crowley: Get a borneo

PHLdyPayne: crested and gargoyle geckos

KLG: once you have bloods, the rest just seems inconsequential.

Rich Crowley: yes

KLG: Ciliatus are AWESOME.

Lurker_nr: I miss my bloods...

KLG: I got some of AC's holdbacks last year...

NickRBReptiles: except boeleni

KLG: Wicked nice stuff.

Rich Crowley: boeleni and p achietae

KLG: Boeleni kick majoy booo-tay!

PHLdyPayne: though I may keep one crested gecko... she lost her tail, it was injured somehow..and so I had her drop it not sure if a cage mate bit it and it became infected or something else..but she's kind of grown on me..

Lurker_nr: not easy to come across what I had... but a friends warehouse fire ....

PHSnow: I could go for an ontogenic blue and melanistic green tree python :E

KLG: LOL...angolans are MUCHOS fun!

Lurker_nr: Rich you talking angolans?

Rich Crowley: YES

KLG: can't wait for mine to go next year.

Lurker_nr: I kept angolans and didn't think much of them

Rich Crowley: LUV angolans, love the texture

jparker1167: i have a friend that breeds bloods thought about getting one again

Lurker_nr: that was cool

RyanNorris_nr: Now i thought we were talking about real snakes... Blood pythons, the ONLY snakes worth talking about.. ;)

KLG: angolans are just sexy!

Lurker_nr: texture is nice

KLG: LOL!!!

Lurker_nr: LOL Ryan ever going to stray just a bit?

RiseAbove: I beg to differ Ryan O_o

KLG: Ryno, Angolans are great too!

Rich Crowley: BLOODS are the best to play with

RyanNorris_nr: No never

jparker1167: to many cool snakes out there to just stick to one

KLG: and blackheads and womas!

Lurker_nr: Kara they are ok....better then balls that's for sure

PHLdyPayne: I live in a city with a 2m maximum python size...so it really limits what i can get....then again, I am quite happy to stay under 8' for snake

Rich Crowley: Squishy ones are fun as a pet not to breed

jparker1167: like some big colubrids lol

KLG: way better than balls!

RiseAbove: Spilotes, Orthriophis, Drymarchon = win

KLG: Although I do like ball pythons, which is why I'm SO glad my other half has them I & dont' have to worry about it.

Lurker_nr: I'll be working with boeleni in the not to distant future

PHFaust: Ehhh balls are balls

Rich Crowley: Good to mix it up

KLG: Nick is THE boeleni guy!

PHLdyPayne: lots of nice colubrids too

PHSnow: lots of people have balls

KLG: Talk to him! HARD CORE keeper...knows his s#!t cold!

NickRBReptiles: best snakes on the planet

NickRBReptiles: thanks kara!

Rich Crowley: RYAN: what are you breeding this year in STP

jparker1167: but elapids are the way to go right rise lol

Lurker_nr: so Nick....lol we'll be doing some chatting then

RyanNorris_nr: Nick is a straight up guy too!

KLG: LOL..when you have the balls that we have here Faust, it's a whole different...eherm...ballgame.

PHLdyPayne: I realy like my BRB's though....

KLG: Nick is top notch all the way across the board!

RyanNorris_nr: Rich, Ultras, Super Stripes and Leopards and normals

Rich Crowley: For me Borneo and Sarawak locality

Lurker_nr: No big numbers....thank god they can be sexed...

PHLdyPayne: yes NERD does have some really awesome balls....

NickRBReptiles: I appreciate that guys alot!!

KLG: He better hurry up & make me some Sambuca babies to buy off of him!

Rich Crowley: We need to talk about leopard

PHLdyPayne: Unflortunately most are out of my price range LOL

KLG: LOL Payne...you should see the stuff that has hatched this year.

PHFaust: Bloods Ldy? Normals are not really that expensive honestly

KLG: hush hush projects that are just way bizzaro!

Lurker_nr: Getting some caiman lizards as my next lizard project...possibly my only lizards but they can't be sexed as babies so I gotta get a group!

NickRBReptiles: Sambuca is one of my favs for sure.

Rich Crowley: I still need a t+

KLG: Buca baby is an awesome snake.

KLG: Rich - I have Ryno juvies here w/your name on them!

KLG: Sheds this week, holy crapsack.

PHLdyPayne: Ball pythons, Faust.. Bloods seem to be pretty good prices. at least the few I have seen in Canada adveritised so far.... Corey Woods has a few adults for a few hundred...males though.

KLG: The pics on my site do NO justice!!!!!!!!

RyanNorris_nr: Yeah rich... I second the T+

Rich Crowley: Good. Had to send my kid to china for school delayed my fun until march/april weather should be better to ship.

KLG: They are all around 1k grams and RED RED RED RED RED!

Rich Crowley: Good

Rich Crowley: Need them beefy

Lurker_nr: I like red

Rich Crowley: Go with my red male, need a gal

RyanNorris_nr: are those the albinos from me?

Rich Crowley: Yes, i thought

Rich Crowley: I heard them came from good stock

RyanNorris_nr: thought they might be bigger, but then again I cant think of how big a kilo is

KLG: Ryan - YES! They are OFF THE DEEP END!

Rich Crowley: 2.2lbs

KLG: I need to send you some updated pics so you can decide if you want to keep any, they are that good.

RyanNorris_nr: thats better.. ;)

KLG: They eat like GANGBUSTERS! POUND the hell outta rats!

PHFaust: Now, how does one determine if their blood is obese?

jparker1167: whats your biggest bloods ?

KLG: if it is a sausage w/a head at one end and a tail at the other.

KLG: Jparker - borneo female, 6

Rich Crowley: good answer

KLG: +, 28 lbs

jparker1167: nice

Rich Crowley: well shaped 28lgs

bigcountry1: http://kyherpsoc.org/supplementarticles/bloodpython/index_clip_image004_0001.jpg

KLG: Ryan...I think you'll be happy with them. They are HUGE and GORGEOUS

jparker1167: i need to get bloods again

KLG: YEAH you do!

RyanNorris_nr: you should always be able to feel the dorsal...

Rich Crowley: Yes you do

RyanNorris_nr: Kara I know those snakes are in good hands

KLG::) I've just been growing them up...they all look SO good!

PHFaust: OHHH Big Country thats a great link! Thanks!

jparker1167: im just into other snakes now

KLG: Even the stragglers are POUNDING!

KLG: Yay for a rodent overload this time of year. And for any of you that like retics...

jparker1167: my friend breeds some really nice borneos and black reds and pretty much gives the babys away

KLG: something VERY cool is on the horizon.

PHLdyPayne: now that is a good link to show ideal body weight/shape

Rich Crowley: Reminds me the food is thawing out for dinner tonight

PHLia: Send me one..of everything lol, blood wise too...can always use more lol

KLG: LOL..JP...tell your friend he needs to be in touch w/me & Rich & Ryan!

PHFaust: Yeah so does my friend rich, but he is selective....

jparker1167: i should get some pics

KLG: Um, DUH!

Rich Crowley: Be nice to me and you get nice stuff

KLG: (completely o/t...raise your hand if you love starbucks!) (cause triple peppermint mochas ROCK)

PHFaust: ME!

Rich Crowley: Show me some curves and I get nicer

jparker1167: hes really picky about the bloods he gets has to be top qualitiy

KLG: Rich...I got your curves right here! :)

GertrudeLuvsSnak: hello everyone

RyanNorris_nr: I dont know about starbucks but I am addicted to Monster

Rich Crowley: Hmmmmm.

KLG: JP...that is SOP...

jparker1167: i like the fapochinos white mocca

Rich Crowley: give me dunkin donuts

KLG: Ewwwwwwwwww

PHSnow: woo timmies

jparker1167: Oh yea, but hes not a big breeder, just breeds for fun, and sells babies for like nothing.

PHLia: I like tim hortons..and lately my favorite place is beaners/biggby

KLG: Lurker...Yager bombs with KFK!!!

GertrudeLuvsSnak: I am interested in blood pythons. I was at the NARBC in Chicago

Rich Crowley: Great show

KLG: KFK ROCKS!

PHSnow: Americans know about tim hortons?

PHLdyPayne: Not sure if there is any Timmies in the US though.

KLG: Tim WHO Uh, DUH?

PHLdyPayne: Tim Horton

PHLia: Yes there are tim hortons in the US snow lol

Rich Crowley: I don't like it when people undersell animals, places lesser value makes them appear disposable.

PHFaust: Cool Gertrude! You have the three best people to hit with questions

NickRBReptiles: Rich-I agree

PHLdyPayne: hockey player... started own business... famous for Coffee and donuts, hang out for the OPP

jparker1167: Well he doesnt undersell at shows, wholesales them to his friends

Lurker_nr: kara KFK>?

GertrudeLuvsSnak: I was looking at enclosures and saw animal plastic caging

PHSnow: morning stop for 90% of canadians

RyanNorris_nr: Kerry F King....

KLG: http://newenglandreptile.com/forumpics/kerry1.jpg

Rich Crowley: AP rocks

NickRBReptiles: AP caging is great

jparker1167: said he doesnt have to make money on them he keeps them and breeds them cause he likes it

KLG: There you go...W/one of our retics

PHLdyPayne: hehe

jeffb: I prefer KFK's tequila

Lurker_nr: ah lol

Rich Crowley: My brew is empty

RyanNorris_nr: I use Animal Plastics and they work great for bloods

jparker1167: Payne what about a hockey player?

KLG: Yeppers! AP is the BEST BEST BEST BEST BEST!

RyanNorris_nr: http://www.animalplastics.com/

KLG: You CAN NOT find a better cage!

Rich Crowley: I need a couple more

Lurker_nr: That's a beautiful classic tiger....love the yellow head....always dreamed of one but I won't get one do to their size

GertrudeLuvsSnak: I was wondering who that sexhay red head in the tight white shirt that worked for them

KLG: OK!

KLG: Now we know what THAT button does!

NickRBReptiles: haha

Lurker_nr: haha

jparker1167: Wow those ap cages are not that high priced

KLG: AP cages are THE BEST value! PERIOD! But when it comes to snake cages I am AP, all the way!

NickRBReptiles: great prices, and awesome customer service

Rich Crowley: Easy to assemble

Stormee: parker what cages are you looking at?

Rich Crowley: burn lots of holes in the tubs

jparker1167: just animal plastic

Stormee: Aweee thats where some of the cages are from where I stay, nice indeed

KLG: Seriously...when it comes to caging I have used a LOT of different cages over the years

GertrudeLuvsSnak: it was a hot red headed guy that worked for animal plastics. i just can't get him out of my head.

Rich Crowley: Me too.

KLG: and easily have $10k+ into AP right now.

PHLdyPayne: I need new cages for my rainbows...

Lurker_nr: Nick how big is your boeleni collection?

Rich Crowley: Vision, Neo, home made, AP

KLG: They are THE BEST CAGES, hands down!

NickRBReptiles: just 1.1 right now

Lurker_nr: adults?

KLG: We just had them do all of our Tokay cages as well,

Rich Crowley: AP is the best

NickRBReptiles: females around 11ft males 5ft

KLG: so we're easly $35K+ into their stock.

Stormee: yeah they are really nice

KLG: And WORTH EVERY PENNY!

PHSnow: I need to assemble myself a rack

KLG: TOTALLY economical...we have OOOOOODLES of cages for that price. Racks upon racks upon racks

Lurker_nr: whomever cracks their breeding potential wide open will be very happy

Rich Crowley: T-10's are on my list next

Stormee: I could fit in these easily and probably never get out course I am not that strong

PHSnow: 41qt tubs for adult corns

KLG: Go AP, you WILL NOT REGRET IT!

Lurker_nr: I personally just stick to visions

Rich Crowley: I like to see my babies

PHLdyPayne: just can't afford the shipping of cages up to Canada though..but a few local PVC based cage builders in myarea though... unless I try and build more cages.....my lizards cages didn't turn out as well as I hoped...I hate wood. warps all the time

NickRBReptiles: still should be awhile

Rich Crowley: Visions are good too

KLG: AP SMOKES vision, any day of the week! But I'm opinionated.

RyanNorris_nr: Mark just designed the CB8-0 Rack for the juvies and it works AWESOME!

NickRBReptiles: no one in the US as produced boeleni this year

PHLdyPayne: I just didnt' want to use particle board....too heavy

Rich Crowley: Just need the visions on a rack. Great for education shows

Lurker_nr: I stack em

bigcountry1: Ryan, what is that rack Igot from you?

Lurker_nr: ahhh

KLG: http://newenglandreptile.com/forumpics/tokaycages1.jpg

Stormee: Parker what do you keep yours in?

KLG: AP tokay setup

jparker1167: I thought about making my cagse but i wouldnt trust them lol

RyanNorris_nr: PFFT I cant remember off hand.....

PHSnow: My cage is particleboard

jparker1167: I have visions and racks

Lurker_nr: I need 2 6ft visions for the selayer's and the ceylonese pythons

PHSnow: i agree, somrthing lighter next time

Rich Crowley: Wooops I turn into a pumpkin shortly

KLG: http://newenglandreptile.com/forumpics/tokaycages2.jpg APAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stormee: what do you lline them with?

KLG: If AP built chicken coops, that's where all my hens would live!

Lurker_nr: don't wanna go racks myself...won't have enough animals and I like to have the cages set up nicely...looks better

KLG: (and I have close to 40 hens!)

jparker1167: I got two 4 foot visions with lights for 150 each

Lurker_nr: nice, so hard to find used visions!

KLG: Rich, pumpkins are HIGHLY overrated!

PHLdyPayne: I need to make a snake rack...in the spring hopefully...but going to make it basic and simple... plywood....

Stormee: got their own house or what? lol

Rich Crowley: The more I bald the more I look like a gourd

KLG: ROFLMAO!

KLG: Propaganda, I tell you!

PHLdyPayne: Unless I happen to get alot of spare money, then maybe I will buy something rack wise...the problem is getting it to my apartment

Lurker_nr: lol

Rich Crowley: occupational hazard

PHSnow: I need to find out what temps corogated plastic will stand up to, it's light and would make a near ideal rack for me

RyanNorris_nr: AP will work on those chicken coops

Rich Crowley: Sales pitch, ryan?

PHLdyPayne: snow: well, just keep heating it till it melts

Rich Crowley: Too funny

KLG: RN...more blood cages would suffice. I have a pretty nice chicken coop. :D

PHLdyPayne: or google it

Lurker_nr: AP's are just as much as visions...but I can get visions locally and skip out on shipping

KLG: I gave up freedom breeder for Animal Plastics, if that says anything.

KLG: FB is great for balls & boas

PHLdyPayne: but some plastics may give off toxic fumes if it starts to get too hot

Rich Crowley: I need somthing for my old balls

KLG: my bloods & STPs LOOOOOOOVE THEIR ANIMAL PLASTICS!!!!!!!!

RyanNorris_nr: Just talked with mark and he appreciates everything you have done for AP

KLG: So easy even a GIRL can put them together! ;)

Rich Crowley: CB70 don't cut it on a 4kg ball

Rich Crowley: We need better tub options

KLG: I'm serious folks...I've used Matrix, Neodesha, Habitat Systems, Vision, you name it. ANIMAL PLASTICS ARE THE BEST CAGES OUT THERE! Period!

Rich Crowley: Got to run everyone. GREAT chat tonight! Again soon!

KLG: G'nite RC~

NickRBReptiles: thanks Rich

PHLdyPayne: KLG: hehe, they paying you to advertise? LOL

jparker1167: making your cages works too

Rich Crowley: RYAN/KaRA you guys rock...talk soon

PHLdyPayne: thanks for coming rich

KLG: I spent an obscene amount of $$ on them Payne

KLG: Payne...their cages have made a HUGE difference in my collection.

jparker1167: kara how many bloods you producing a year ?

Lurker_nr: I know you hold enough back that you possibly could let 1.1 nice red animals go haha

KLG: I'm not advertising, I'm letting folks know what has worked WONDERS for me.

KLG: JP...if all goes as planned I should have 20 females go this year.

PHLdyPayne: KLG: they do have nice cages... its the shipping up here to Canada that makes them...unobtainable for me...

KLG: numbers vary from year to year, and I like to give my girls time off.

Stormee: been trying to breed my bloods for awhile now and still no luck

KLG: Stormee...are you sure you have a pair? because boys WILL breed boys as a form of combat.

Stormee: yeah

PHFaust:On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us here at kingsnake.com, Thank You for taking your time to chat with us. Transcripts will be posted with in a few days. Once again, Thank you Kara, Rich and Ryan!